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A significant percentage of the orchestral repertoire really doesn't require a conductor (when performed or even rehearsed by top level orchestras - as such pieces to which I refer can be completely conducted by the concertmaster as well as the prominent soloist in a passage. Input from section leaders - with a little bit of consideration of Robert's rules of order - can actually get through the rehearsing of pieces more quickly than music directors with all of their rhetoric, bragging, and reminiscing), but music directors are going to be on the podium because there's no way that they're going to admit that they're not essential 100% of the time.
When someone's up there conducting one of those pieces mentioned in the previous sentence (without regard to the reputation of any particular conductor), I tend to view many of them (particularly some of the up-and-comer younger ones - who replaced either fired or retired true maestros) as "butt dancers". (As to quite a bit of the orchestral repertoire not actually needing to be presided over by someone waving a stick at them, I'm referring to highly-rated professional orchestras, and not children's orchestras, student orchestras and amateur orchestras.)

I agree. I will go further. And I will get flack for this comment. So be it. It is true. Unlike orchestras such as the Louisville, KY, who have an ongoing commission program for new works, most orchestras are nothing more than fancy cover bands. Some are good, yes, but if you look at the average regional orchestra program, they are nothing more than fancy cover bands. And people wonder why orchestra attendance keeps declining.

I enjoy watching this orchestra.
They are a youth orchestra from Bahia, Brazil.
Very often, they will perform without a conductor.
I think that only on a few pieces do they use a conductor.
One of the pieces that I remember them using a conductor on was Mahler’s 5th.
But they, kind of like Gustavo Dudamel’s
Simón Bolívar Symphony from Venezuela,tend to be very pleasing and entertaining to the audience.
Something I would actually pay to see.

I remember watching a video of Bernstein with whatever orchestra it was, playing without his doing anything at all other than looking at the section whose time it was to enter, with a smile on his face and raising his eyebrows.

Even decent amateur groups can easily play marches without a conductor, and we have a local one who in the park concerts gets the band going on S&S on endless repeat, and then there is a line-up of little kids who get to sequentially wave the baton for a short while. Some of the kids even keep reasonable time, and I bet all of them remember it forever.

dp wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2026 10:06 am

It's not fair to make fun of my trolling by using a picture that I first used myself.
Abide by the rules of trolling.
"Honor amongst thieves" etc.

(That said, up to a certain level of experience and capabilities, most instrumentalists need constant instruction as to interpretation, but - above a certain level - a stick waiver doesn't really function in any useful way on quite a few orchestral or wind band compositions.)

I'm always working on getting my chamber orchestra weaned of me as conductor,. especially when historically,.there wouldn't be a conductor.

My principal violinist is EXCELLENT, and is learning how to lead the group from the first desk, at the ripe age of 15.

I would generally agree.

However, during the time I was in Pittsburgh, I heard from several members of the PSO how much they enjoyed working with certain conductors because of the textures they were able to bring out of the music.

With that many talented, practiced, skilled, and opinionated musicians onstage, it can be a benefit to have one person dictate the interpretation they will be using of a given piece for a performance. I've heard it produce duds, but I've also heard it be otherworldly inspiring. I recently listened to the Bernstein/LA Phil Rhapsody in Blue and was very impressed by the clarity he was able to bring to the score where I'm used to hearing some level of chaos (not unmusical chaos, if that makes sense).

tubanh84 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2026 12:41 pm the textures they were able to bring out of the music.

Can you explain what this means?

AvrTuba wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2026 1:22 pm

tubanh84 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2026 12:41 pm the textures they were able to bring out of the music.

Can you explain what this means?

Balancing the sections such that parts you don't normally hear are more present. And/or that you can hear more of what is going on at any given time. Just like hearing a great concert pianist bring out all of the different voices in the pieces, rather than just playing each note the same way.

I guess it depends, in most string orchestra works, I think the conductor isn't necessary. Working with each other is great. (Leading while playing is a who different world, especially in Baroque pieces with improv.)

There's more than one way to skin a ......deer!

Sorry, trolling! (I've got to get to my fly-tying someday to make the bloke, a believe it will be an extra-long trolling streamer based on the Mickey Finn (for Mirafone), with a little brown to look like a proper Teutonic Salmo trutta.