TubaForum.net

Z22 has been discontinued:

https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/product ... fA5nVfOxYx

Z22 was an orange gel that worked really well, better than anything else I had tried since they took methalymine out of aircraft remover.

Is there a similar product available commercially/industrially? Any alternatives?

I've been looking into this for a bit.. Most things I could find require specialized dip tanks...or extended dwell times. I think the best options might be (and they are not great)... I decided that I don't mind a scotch brite followed by 0000 steel wool matte finish.


Peroxide-Activated Benzyl Alcohol (e.g., Cee-Bee E-2018A, TURCO 6881): Originally developed for aerospace epoxy primers, these neutral-pH formulations use hydrogen peroxide as an activator alongside benzyl alcohol. They cleave the cross-linked resin without acidic or alkaline attack on non-ferrous metals or soft solder. ~2 hour dwell

Organic Acid-Activated Benzyl Alcohol (e.g., Eldorado PR-3500, Cee-Bee R-256): These pair benzyl alcohol with formic or glycolic acid. The acid breaks the epoxy polymer matrix while the solvent swells the film. A prompt water rinse is required to prevent light surface tarnishing on raw brass. 30-90 minutes dwell.

Heated DMSO & Dibasic Ester (DBE) Blends: A non-acidic solvent system combining dimethyl sulfoxide and DBE. When used in an immersion bath heated to 120–140°F (49–60°C), it swells baked epoxy over 2 to 6 hours without reaching temperatures that threaten soft-soldered brass joints (360°F / 182°C).

Soda Blasting: At a Mohs hardness of 2.5 (annealed yellow brass is 3-4), soda shatters on impact, releasing energy laterally to shear off the epoxy rather than driving grit into the metal. Because soda is water-soluble, any stray dust inside valve casings or slides flushes out easily with hot water.

LN Quenching: Uses the mismatch in thermal expansion between brass and eqpoxy to fracture the lacquer off. Can only be used on "parts" dunking an intact instrument will pop braces and potentially distort other joints.

Don Sawday in SoCal mentioned on social media that he found something on Amazon comparable to what Badger State uses. They use something proprietary called "Safe Strip" or "Safety Strip." I lost the post, though, and didn't see any follow-up.

It involves heating up a solution to ~130 degrees F, so you need some sort of outdoor burner.

I am also not opposed to the Scotchbrite finish followed by some buffing, but the cold strip was so much easier. I still have half of a bottle and had been waiting to get more before I found out it was discontinued.

Easy Off works pretty well on King orange lacquer. I had a friend recommend an automotive epoxy remover but it didn't do much on nitrocellulose lacquer.

I've found Easy-Off (yellow, not blue) to be pretty reliable and effective. Might have to repeat a few times for stubborn spots.

UncleBeer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:15 am I've found Easy-Off (yellow, not blue) to be pretty reliable and effective. Might have to repeat a few times for stubborn spots.

Have you tried it on newer epoxy lacquers and older lacquer, too?

I just ask because I've had almost no luck with it besides on old Eastlake orange stuff... but maybe I am not letting it sit long enough. It's lye-based, so I wonder if some mild heat activation would also help.

I have tried the heavy duty stuff:



Maybe regular would be better due to the chemical formulation.

Citristrip works pretty well. You may have to let sit longer and apply several times on more stubborn lacquers, but it should do the job. It is a gel that you paint on with a brush to the work areas. Then clean/strip off after it has discolored and bubbled the lacquer.

I also have the heavy duty Easy-Off cleaner. I guess that works as well, but to me it's better for grime and film.
The old Elkhart BBb tuba I bought a couple years ago had this weird film all over it. It is a silver-plated tuba, but was tarnished, yet I had difficulty removing with my regular tarnish removers. Only after spraying on heavy duty Easy-Off was I able to remove a lot of that weird film and tarnish. I strongly suspect the tuba was in a smoker's house, and had old cigarette nicotine tar and film caked all over it

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:20 am
Have you tried it on newer epoxy lacquers and older lacquer, too?

Yup. If not immediately effective, I leave it on overnight. Works great, but sometimes it leaves black/bluish residue, which can easily be removed with this stuff from Flitz.

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 8:46 am Don Sawday in SoCal mentioned on social media that he found something on Amazon comparable to what Badger State uses. They use something proprietary called "Safe Strip" or "Safety Strip." I lost the post, though, and didn't see any follow-up.

It involves heating up a solution to ~130 degrees F, so you need some sort of outdoor burner.

Safe Strip is still some pretty nasty stuff... Based on what I read on the SDS I wouldn't be surprised if it also gets phased out.

The big issue though is your would need enough for an heated immersion tank and it is $650 for a 5 gallon bucket before freight and hazardous material surcharges.

If you were doing a lot of "restoration" and refinishing it could make sense... but for your average shop I don't know if it is a viable solution.

Stripper that works is still available from industry sources, but no longer to the retail market.

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:20 am

UncleBeer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:15 am I've found Easy-Off (yellow, not blue) to be pretty reliable and effective. Might have to repeat a few times for stubborn spots.

Have you tried it on newer epoxy lacquers and older lacquer, too?

I just ask because I've had almost no luck with it besides on old Eastlake orange stuff... but maybe I am not letting it sit long enough. It's lye-based, so I wonder if some mild heat activation would also help.

I have tried the heavy duty stuff:



Maybe regular would be better due to the chemical formulation.

I've used this for Eastlake orange that came off after 2 coats.
I read the label and found sodium hydroxide to be one of the ingredients so I bought a gallon of ecolab oven, grill, and fryer cleaner to try dipping a horn in. I'll hopefully get around to it this weekend.

jose the tuba player wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:38 pm

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:20 am

UncleBeer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:15 am I've found Easy-Off (yellow, not blue) to be pretty reliable and effective. Might have to repeat a few times for stubborn spots.

Have you tried it on newer epoxy lacquers and older lacquer, too?

I just ask because I've had almost no luck with it besides on old Eastlake orange stuff... but maybe I am not letting it sit long enough. It's lye-based, so I wonder if some mild heat activation would also help.

I have tried the heavy duty stuff:



Maybe regular would be better due to the chemical formulation.

I've used this for Eastlake orange that came off after 2 coats.
I read the label and found sodium hydroxide to be one of the ingredients so I bought a gallon of ecolab oven, grill, and fryer cleaner to try dipping a horn in. I'll hopefully get around to it this weekend.

Nice, good luck! Let us know how it goes. How big a container do you have to dip things into?

And yeah, sodium hydroxide = lye

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:49 pm

jose the tuba player wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:38 pm

arpthark wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2026 9:20 am

Have you tried it on newer epoxy lacquers and older lacquer, too?

I just ask because I've had almost no luck with it besides on old Eastlake orange stuff... but maybe I am not letting it sit long enough. It's lye-based, so I wonder if some mild heat activation would also help.

I have tried the heavy duty stuff:



Maybe regular would be better due to the chemical formulation.

I've used this for Eastlake orange that came off after 2 coats.
I read the label and found sodium hydroxide to be one of the ingredients so I bought a gallon of ecolab oven, grill, and fryer cleaner to try dipping a horn in. I'll hopefully get around to it this weekend.

Nice, good luck! Let us know how it goes. How big a container do you have to dip things into?

And yeah, sodium hydroxide = lye

I'm going to use those yellow Costco storage bins. I have a bunch of 20j parts I need to strip before soldering back together. But I can try it first on a baritone Horn I have somewhere in the garage.

I know I'm just now jumping in and I only barely scanned that to which I'm responding, but is someone going to put a chemical that strips lacquer into a plastic tub?

Sorry if I asked a stupid question because I didn't read the previous, and only scanned it.

bloke wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2026 8:50 am I know I'm just now jumping in and I only barely scanned that to which I'm responding, but is someone going to put a chemical that strips lacquer into a plastic tub?

Sorry if I asked a stupid question because I didn't read the previous, and only scanned it.

Jose the tuba player is buying this stuff, which is essentially a big bulk jug of Easy Off:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ECOLAB-1-Ga ... /a#overlay

He's putting it in a big black and yellow storage tub which is made of polypropylene (I think). Lye doesn't react with polypropylene, so I think it'll be okay... but we need to call a real scientist in, @gocsick

Okay the giant jug of Easy Off then.

I didn't know you could buy a big jug of it and only thought it was available as an aerosol, so I sort of assumed that the subject had been changed.

My experience with Easy Off is that if (??) it works on the lacquer on a particular tuba, four cans should get any tuba, and when the lacquer that is active with the easy off is sprayed over, the very thickest overspray area and runs are still going to remain on the instrument, and are going to need to be removed by hand.

Several decades ago, we stripped virtually everything with 50 gallons of water with a salvaged hot water tank burner under a 55 gallon drum with a lid, and a really high concentration of Red Devil Lye. That's probably a very closely related chemical, but - with water being the carrier, it can end up being more active than aerosol oven cleaner (as we heated that stuff up to a rolling boil). If aerosol oven cleaner is heated with a flame or something, it explodes, whereby no one had better activate it much above 150° or so.

arpthark wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2026 9:34 am

bloke wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2026 8:50 am I know I'm just now jumping in and I only barely scanned that to which I'm responding, but is someone going to put a chemical that strips lacquer into a plastic tub?

Sorry if I asked a stupid question because I didn't read the previous, and only scanned it.

Jose the tuba player is buying this stuff, which is essentially a big bulk jug of Easy Off:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ECOLAB-1-Ga ... /a#overlay

He's putting it in a big black and yellow storage tub which is made of polypropylene (I think). Lye doesn't react with polypropylene, so I think it'll be okay... but we need to call a real scientist in, @gocsick

HDPE and Polypropylene are going to be completely inert to the stuff. PETE/PET is not safe and will dissolve over time...

I used to do a sort of redneck thing and apply the Ferree's gel to horns outside using disposable paint brushes and would put the gel in a cup. One time I used a plastic Solo cup that I had on hand. The cup dissolved pretty quickly. I ended up using Pyrex glass after that.

LOL...Don't use aluminum.

30 minutes in not much of a result. I did fill up the 27 gallon tote 3/5ths of the way so it's pretty diluted now. I'll report back in a hour or two.

No progress I'll update tomorrow afternoon. If there's no progress I'll add another gallon.