Seriously, why?

[AvrTuba]

Why are there SO many Eastmans for sale all the time?

People just moving on with the flavor of the day?

[shovelingtom]

99% of them are the 836 6/4 model which college students are told they NEED to win the chicago symphony job, and when they figure out that's not going to happen, they sell them

[gocsick]

They also sound really good behind the bell on a showroom or practice room. I was surprised by the one I played at Dillon and my son sounded fantastic on it in store.. I can see why so many younger players are drawn to them. There are two in my son's tuba studio... :

[JC2]

They are great horns. My 836 paid for itself probably 15x over the course of my time with it.

I got a bit bored with it, that’s why I sold it. I have 4/4 and 5/4 C tubas now for work. It’s fun to have a bit more edge available without having to destroy ensembles with tuba sound.

I’d absolutely own an 836 again in a heartbeat. The newer ones are even better now. If I did more large orchestral playing again they’d be perfect.

A lot of folks seem to unfairly bash the 6/4 York tuba recently. It’s probably not going work practicing only every second day and playing in your semi-amateur orchestra with three or four double bass players …

To answer the question, folks are probably realising an 836 isn’t the best tool for their needs.

[Doug]

They're great 6/4 CC tubas, but at the end of the day, it's a 6/4 CC tuba.

I really like my 836. It's a very good tuba. It plays well in tune and relatively efficiently given its size. I've got nothing but compliments for how I sound on it in large ensembles. It's also not the right tool for every job. I usually don't play my 836 in chamber groups or for solo work. I have instruments that are better tools for those jobs.

I think people see pros play on these and assume they'll sound like that if they play on it. They probably don't practice like the people they're trying to sound like, and their use case is almost never the same as those people. When you don't have the right tool for the job, it's not going to be easy to get the job done. Most of these students and amateur tubists are buying them as their only instrument, so it has to do it all for them.

This is the first time 6/4 York-shaped tubas have been in the ballpark of affordable for students and played reasonably well, so they sold like hot cakes. The Eastman was the most popular of this wave of normal tuba priced York-shaped tubas. You're just seeing people realize these tubas aren't great for every use case.

[Schlitzz]

Well said.

[gocsick]

They're great 6/4 CC tubas, but at the end of the day, it's a 6/4 CC tuba.

I really like my 836. It's a very good tuba. It plays well in tune and relatively efficiently given its size. I've got nothing but compliments for how I sound on it in large ensembles. It's also not the right tool for every job. I usually don't play my 836 in chamber groups or for solo work. I have instruments that are better tools for those jobs.

I think people see pros play on these and assume they'll sound like that if they play on it. They probably don't practice like the people they're trying to sound like, and their use case is almost never the same as those people. When you don't have the right tool for the job, it's not going to be easy to get the job done. Most of these students and amateur tubists are buying them as their only instrument, so it has to do it all for them.

This is the first time 6/4 York-shaped tubas have been in the ballpark of affordable for students and played reasonably well, so they sold like hot cakes. The Eastman was the most popular of this wave of normal tuba priced York-shaped tubas. You're just seeing people realize these tubas aren't great for every use case.

But that is exactly how Eastman has always marketed them... right on their own website

The EBC836 is a 6/4 size tuba inspired by the legendary York orchestral CC tuba. This large tuba is at home on stage with a symphony orchestra or concert band, in the pit of an opera or ballet orchestra, and is nimble enough to play in small chamber ensembles. The next generation 6/4 tuba has arrived!

[catgrowlB]

^ "The next generation 6/4 tuba has arrived!" The Eastman is a very close copy of the YamaYork, which is arguably the closest copy of the roughly 90+ year old original York CC.
That design has been around for quite a while and copied by many makers for decades now.

It's interesting how the 6/4 York has always been associated with the CSO and Jacobs, and Pokorny.
But the two 6/4 York tubas were originally made for the Philadelphia Orchestra and Phillip Donatelli. Donatelli rejected the Yorks -- preferring his 4/4+ Conn CC -- and sold the Yorks to Jacobs.

[bloke]

The model certainly looks a lot like a Yamaha.

[Doug]

The model certainly looks a lot like a Yamaha.

And that Yamaha model certainly looks a lot like a York. Were you trying to make a point?

[bloke]

The model certainly looks a lot like a Yamaha.

And that Yamaha model certainly looks a lot like a York. Were you trying to make a point?

No. I was just trolling for people who are easily triggered.
Did I find one?

Joe Sellmansberger, CEO of Mid-South Music, Incorporated
Sellmansberger Mouthpieces Artist

[Sousaswag]

Of course. If they didn’t say that it can do everything well all these people wouldn’t buy them!

[bloke]

I can play any of them.
As far as tastes in "subtle sonic characteristics" are concerned...whatever re: any of that.

offered analogy:




The question that I have always first striven to answer is "How much slide-pulling (or "some-unsolvable-other-than-epic-lipping") intonation issues are there, and/or how many alternate fingerings are required?"

I've played most of the clones.
Head-and-shoulders above the others - intonation-wise - is the Yamaha 826 (subtly-flat/easily-favored 5th partial E and E♭...and - me - I don't care for alternate fingerings, with everything else - pretty much - "fine") The one that comes in second for me (though it's disqualified, because of the rotary valves - as well as the rotary valve BORE size - and I suspect this opinion/observation may come as a surprise to many) is the Rudy Meinl 5/4. The "original" York's intonation characteristics are as "curious" as are those of many of the rest.

My personally-owned priciest tuba - if new - costs about $26K w/hard case.
I've noticed that a whole bunch of busier-than-me tuba players seem to balk at prices much above $15K (or else are satisfied with those in that price range or lower).

but bloke, does price have anything to do what quality?

That's a question for each individual to answer, isn't it?

That said, it's not uncommon for freelance bassoonists to shell out $40K to $75K (and let's not get into the bowed instruments' pricing).

Is this an indication that we are less serious about what we do than some others?
I really have no idea.
What are audition committees' opinions of the corporate/average playing prowess of tuba candidates vs. that of typical bassoon candidates?

Doesn't "principal tuba" usually pay more than "second bassoon"?
Whose playing is more exposed/more critical/requires (to avoid "sticking out" - in a bad way) more attention to detail?
Which of these two players' typical parts - from one concert to the next - require more velocity/facility?

Hey bloke, I don't get your point.

Does there really need to be one?

[JC2]

I’d rather play a 6/4 CC than any rotary Bb. I have a few rotor Bb tubas to play at work and it’s a miserable experience every single time.

Ease, clarity, tone, beauty, flexibility of intonation are all much easier for me on the C tuba. Bb is hard, hard work.

[bloke]

Yeah, the Germans are men enough to handle them.

... and often noticeably better than some of the Americans.

https://www.facebook.com/frederik.bauersfeld/

[prodigal]

I like rotary horns, and for a larger tuba with an American/Teutonic sound fusion, may I offer up the PT-6 rotary?

I like German rotary tubas of most keys..

[russiantuba]

Bigger tubas don’t mean bigger sound (often the opposite) nor easier to play (also often the opposite).

Many of the people selling them are moving to a smaller horn that fits them better. This is why I suggest for students to try as many horns as possible with a good set of ears to tell them what is heard.

Just because someone “cool” plays one, and as I learned “because XYZ plays this horn and won a job on this horn”, doesn’t mean it’s a good horn for you.

John Fletcher was able to play a garden hose well (and I did for a symphony even demonstrating this a couple years back). Ironically, the pitched garden hose was easier to slot and respond on the low end than several 6/4 York style tubas I have played. Maybe the pitched garden hose was a spectacular example of one!

[catgrowlB]

^ Yeah, you could say the PT-6 is a sorta sound fusion tuba. I know some of you guys go nuts over that model.

Yesterday I was listening to a 1986 broadcast of the NY Phil w/Mehta on YouTube, and a young Warren Deck sounded just fantastic on the old 4/4+ (or 5/4) rotary Conn CC playing Tchaikovsky 5th. I'd love for some of those old, OTHER/forgotten gems of tubas be resurrected or revived.

[bloke]

I've got four piston instruments, four piston instruments plus a rotor, instruments with five rotors, an instrument with six rotors, instruments with top action pistons with both three valve and four valve compensating systems, instruments with three pistons, instruments with 18 feet long B flat bugles, instruments with a foot longer E-flat bugles, and instruments with 12 feet long bugles. I did have instruments with 16 feet C bugles, but I thought it was kind of weird to keep those when I decided to replace them with instruments with B flat bugles (as I decided to start playing B flat instruments [1] because I was looking for something new to do, and [2] the B flat versions of same model C instruments always sound more resonant).

Many Americans - who never started learning orchestral excerpts until they got a Ctubaforcollege (I was one of them) - would otherwise find that quite a few of them (when playing them on the B-flat tubas for which they were written) involve actually blowing through LESS tubing quite a bit of the time (as well as less CYLINDRICAL tubing. As it did with me, it would require establishing a new comfort zone. Most people don't want to do that, once they've set up a comfort zone, and this probably pertains to most aspects of most everyone's lives.)

[JC2]

Yeah, the Germans are men enough to handle them.

... and often noticeably better than some of the Americans.

https://www.facebook.com/frederik.bauersfeld/

That player is a master. I’m not foolish enough to think that I could pick up a Bb tuba and make it sound like that without years of work.

That said, some of the things that player does are stylistically very German. That probably wouldn’t fly too well in the US.