TubaForum.net

Behind this very generic title, here are my current thoughts.

Following this topic, I gave it a lot of thoughts, and for several reasons, I think I will go towards a BBb.

My reasons are:
- big-ish Eb are quite expensive (or quite beaten)
- a lot of wind band sheet musics are in Bb
- in my band library, most C and Eb sheet musics have disappeared
- if I get lent a marching bass, it would most likely be a Bb sousaphone rather than an Eb helicon

And even though, for the reasons #2 and #3, I can read in tenor clef, I think there is no point to buy another Eb and keep having the same mental load.

Now forward to the "instruments to try" choice.

I could go towards something like a Wessex Dragon/Viverna/Luzern, but I keep asking myself "why not a Cerveny" ?

All the xx3 models (603 / 683 / 693 / 783 / 883) seem interesting.
One of my biggest questions so far is if I should go to a 4 valves or if I need a 5th valve. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the 5th valve would get little use.

There is also a used ABB 691 which is 30 minutes away from my place that I could go try, but it's a little expensive for it's state and bigger that I would like it to be.

To support your reasoning:

British-style brass band music is transposing, and written specifically for Eb and Bb basses. But military/concert band/wind ensemble music in other settings is almost always written in concert pitch, and one just learns the fingerings as needed for the chosen instrument.

Most band composers probably had Bb tubas in mind, but longer ago than four or five decades would also have included octave divisions to accommodate the limited low range of Eb tubas that often had only three valves.

Bb is therefore the default choice in most places, but pros in high end groups are probably playing C tubas.

Band music assigns two different roles to tubas, in addition to occasionally providing a unique or solo voice. They are either the bass of the brass and therefore an extension of the trombones, or they are the bass of the band filling what in an orchestra would be string bass duties. Depending on the music, a section of German-style instruments can put out the brass power sound, and a section of American-style short and fat tubas can put a floor under the band. Most amateur bands in the US have a mix, but in Germany the instruments will usually be rotary tubas as a matter of tradition.

Any tuba that one can play in tune and in time is going to be welcome in most amateur bands. (Again, British-style brass bands are different—there is more tradition there and more competitiveness and judgement.) I normally play a Bb Kaiser rotary tuba, but sometimes play a fat Holton grand orchestral tuba in Bb. Lots of amateurs own standard-size rotary tubas as a default, and any such that has decent intonation and tone will be fine. That would include Cerveny tubas, of course.

At least go try out that 691.

One issue I have with Cerveny of old is that the brass tends to be soft and dent-prone. They require extra care.

I think you are right in thinking a fifth valve is at least optional. Some insist on a fifth valve for solving some tuning problems, but I’ve never had a fifth valve on a Bb tuba and I know how to play the alternate resonances to get an in-tune low Eb. It’s extremely rare that band music requires lower notes than that. (Competition-level brass band music is a different story). 5-valve Bb tubas are pretty rare on the used market in any case. I’ve certainly never felt like I was missing something.

I would also look into used Miraphones and VMI/B&S and their stencils. Playing condition and the individual traits of the instrument in question will be as important as what’s engraved on the bell.

Rick “who has owned and used all of the above at one time or another” Denney

Thank you, that is a very interesting read.

Just one thing: here in France, sheet music in wind band is almost always transposed for tuba.
Sometimes there is a concert pitch tuba part, but there 99.99% of the time a Bb tuba part written in Bb (either treble clef or bass clef, I've seen both).
So far, in roughly 25% of the part I've seen there is a concert pitch tuba part. A little less for Eb tuba.

The only transposing instruments that are played concert pitch here are trombones (but some players might learn it in Bb in some places, not related to brass band) and F tuba.