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Most interesting to me:

"Helleberg-Sear mouthpiece"

Is that the fourth-valve slide sticking way out by itself. It is screaming: "Damage me!".

That 4th valve slide is an odd design decision. Looks like there’s ample room to bring the lower loop down further so that the slide would sit in a more reasonable place.

After having looked closely at the picture of this model on the Kanstul Legacy web site, I have come to the conclusion that this horn has been either altered or customized. The fourth valve slide does not stick up like this on that example, and the fourth valve tuning slide is in the lower part of the horn where you would expect it. Obviously a previous owner wanted to be able to adjust fourth valve on the fly. If it’s an alteration, it looks like very good work. But why? On most BBb tubas, isn’t fourth valve usually a “set it and forget it” thing? Also, the removable bell is odd. They don’t seem to have come this way. Maybe it was a factory option? But if so, why? The only purpose would be to switch to a different type of bell, like a recording bell, and I don’t believe Kanstul even made a recording bell. Or it could be to separate the bell and body into two different cases ala old Conn/King. But this horn has a perfectly good case that holds the entire horn. This is one of the most puzzling posts I’ve seen in the Classifieds in a long time!

To me, it looks like a fixed version of a supposed convertible/dedicated marching tuba. I seem to recall that version having very long/tall slides. And, there may have been mention of a 4-valve marching tuba/G bugle of this size.

Perhaps this was an early attempt at making a concert band version of a then dedicated marching bass? And the picture on the legacy site is the final version of the concert horn with lower slides. (Actually the real final version of this bugle was the 5433 with a larger bore, 5th valve and "York alloy" body.)

What we do know is Zig did a lot of experimentation with the tubas using the valve clusters and mandrels on hand. Perhaps the removable bell is for ease of repair (remember, marching tuba beginnings).

In any case, interesting tuba, and RIP Kanstul.

I agree, definitely a marching tuba or contra valveset. I have a King marching tuba with the slides “way out there” in a similar configuration.

DonO. wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 7:06 amOn most BBb tubas, isn’t fourth valve usually a “set it and forget it” thing?

On BBb tubas with only four valves, having an easy to adjust fourth-valve slide is helpful for tuning lower notes such as Eb which would be a 1-4 combination.

Mark wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 10:34 am

DonO. wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 7:06 amOn most BBb tubas, isn’t fourth valve usually a “set it and forget it” thing?

On BBb tubas with only four valves, having an easy to adjust fourth-valve slide is helpful for tuning lower notes such as Eb which would be a 1-4 combination.

The 4th valve on this beast looks anything but easy to adjust! It would require an extremely long arm I think!

As to the pedal Eb, on my King it’s sharp enough using 1-4 that I play it 1-2-4. I would rather do that than pull slides. Works for me!

This is the Kanstul BBb version of the old King K-90 with a slightly larger bell. It was convertible and actually pretty popular in the early 1990s.

They had a two-valved GG contra using this exact bugle with longer inner branches and a permanently fixed valve section. Sometime around 1992, they introduced a three-valved BBb version and then a four-valved one. Later, a version of that horn was sold with a valve section that could be removed and flipped to allow for concert use. These were lousy concert horns as the ergonomics sucked, and they were top-heavy. Bad all around. This got him into using that marching piston block on everything, which was their fatal mistake as a tuba builder. All horns using this marching set have odd tubing wraps and have weird intonation and resistance issues. Stubborn man, he was brilliant, but not enough to see the need to make a dedicated concert tuba piston set.

This looks like someone decided they liked this tuba in its weird-AF concert iteration and had the valve section soldered in place by the factory.

Do not buy it. It will have distinct and unusual playing characteristics, and there are no longer factory replacement parts. Being silver-plated means that all work to unf**ktangulate it will leave horrible cosmetic scars to the finish.

Great sound. Stuffy below the staff. Weird pitch. Avoid.