TubaForum.net

Here are my "Blind Old Man" editions of some things I am working on right now. Enjoy!

The Munsters Low Range Workout

Fountains and The Ride

Ohh The Munsters one is going to kick my butt for a while .. I've been struggling to get those pedal Gs out. ... Some days they are there but most days they are not.

I'm going to have to print out that Munster's thing.. .
That G (or maybe G-flat) is the lowest pitch that I can reliably play. I can only produce an F if I've been playing for about a half an hour or so.

I'm sure I'll never be able to actually read that many ledger lines.

There was a video on YouTube about fifteen years ago (it’s gone now, I checked) of a guy from “expertvillage.com” playing the Munsters theme on a big 20J and describing it as one of the few tuba solos that’s ever existed. He also said that the tuba doesn’t play during the whole theme, because that would be “too annoying.”

now to put into TC so us Brass Band folks can give it a go.

@the elephant thank you for creating and sharing these. Downloaded and Printed!

Are there actually brass band players who actually can only read treble clef and never learned non-transposed bass clef?

I'm not demeaning it. I'm just surprised that the musical experiences have been so contained. Oh yeah, I'm also not criticizing contained.

bloke wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 9:32 am Are there actually brass band players who actually can only read treble clef and never learned non-transposed bass clef?

I'm not demeaning it. I'm just surprised that the musical experiences have been so contained. Oh yeah, I'm also not criticizing contained.

I can imagine that they never learn anything else in the UK
In the Netherlands we use a different system as well (transposed bass clef noted an octave up) and i rarely meet anyone that reads concert pitch bass clef.
I learned because I wanted access to more music and because there are no transposed f tuba parts.

There are those who came up through the school system here and who started on trumpet and then moved to euphonium -- and they are surprisingly reluctant to learn bass clef as adults.

We had the opposite here, a tuba player who read bass clef and refused to learn Eb treble clef despite how easy that is. There was another though who got himself an Eb tuba, and it took me less than five minutes to explain it to him and for him to get it. Both ends of the scale.

Mary Ann wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 12:41 pm surprisingly reluctant to learn bass clef as adults.

Do not assume it's reluctance. I have tried and tried to become as proficient in BC as I am in TC. My brain just won't do it. It takes me a second to tell you the note name in BC whereas in TC it's instantaneous.

I can learn new fingerings quite easily and the retention is good if I don't do it for a while. If I give BC a break, it's almost back to square one. With my Mirafone 35w, I find I'm more learning new fingerings rather than applying the fingerings I already know when it comes to reading faster.

anadmai wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 6:07 am now to put into TC so us Brass Band folks can give it a go.

Bass clef is absolute so would that be a set in (transposed) treble clef for Eb Tubas and another for BBb’s?

I looked at the Bass Clef part and thought pass for now, as a UK Brass Bander I’ve only casual and accidental skills in Bass Clef reading. What my conductor would really like is for me to read the Treble Clef parts presented to me with additional skill, for Brass Band Tuba players better Bass Clef reading has little benefit.

Craig F wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Mary Ann wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 12:41 pm surprisingly reluctant to learn bass clef as adults.

Do not assume it's reluctance. I have tried and tried to become as proficient in BC as I am in TC. My brain just won't do it. It takes me a second to tell you the note name in BC whereas in TC it's instantaneous.

I can learn new fingerings quite easily and the retention is good if I don't do it for a while. If I give BC a break, it's almost back to square one. With my Mirafone 35w, I find I'm more learning new fingerings rather than applying the fingerings I already know when it comes to reading faster.

Some folk get it and some don’t. When I played Trombone I struggled and never did manage to switch easily between the two clefs.

Thank you, @the elephant! I've downloaded and saved it!

Craig F wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Mary Ann wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 12:41 pm surprisingly reluctant to learn bass clef as adults.

Do not assume it's reluctance. I have tried and tried to become as proficient in BC as I am in TC. My brain just won't do it. It takes me a second to tell you the note name in BC whereas in TC it's instantaneous.

I can learn new fingerings quite easily and the retention is good if I don't do it for a while. If I give BC a break, it's almost back to square one. With my Mirafone 35w, I find I'm more learning new fingerings rather than applying the fingerings I already know when it comes to reading faster.

I'm really curious as to how you've tried to learn it. When teaching -- I start with literally one note. When the person can see that one note and read it instantaneously, (which obviously occurs right away,) we go on to the second note. It's like teaching a very beginning student. Flash cards have been quite useful. Sometimes it has been just two notes per lesson, but they get there in time.

bloke wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 9:32 am Are there actually brass band players who actually can only read treble clef and never learned non-transposed bass clef?

I'm not demeaning it. I'm just surprised that the musical experiences have been so contained. Oh yeah, I'm also not criticizing contained.

I taught myself Bass Clef, by transposing and I still stick with it to this day. I won't write in the fingerings. That's cheating to me.

I have no desire to read Bass Clef, if I don't have to. I didn't have to back in college and I sure don't have to now.

Today, I play in 3 brass bands. I play Eb Bass in two and baritone in another. There is no need for Bass Clef. If I had to play in a concert band, I'd play Euphonium and well Treble Clef. Tried playing my Eb Bass in a concert band for one season and hated it. The parts were boring. Eb Bass in a brass band? *chef's kiss*. 2nd baritone in a brass band? *brings a pillow to assist with rest counting*

I have a 7th grader who plays baritone and she's playing Treble Clef. She plays Cello and plays piano so she is covered in all clefs.

Funny you think a memorization tool is cheating!! I got in an orchestra soon after getting the NStar and I did not know Eb fingerings well. By xeroxing the part and writing in needed fingerings, over a period of a couple months I knew the fingerings just through repetition and didn't need that crutch any longer. I didn't have time to learn them ahead of when I needed to use them.

Cheating only to myself.

anadmai wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2025 1:11 pm I taught myself Bass Clef, by transposing and I still stick with it to this day. I won't write in the fingerings. That's cheating to me.

Eb Bass in a brass band? *chef's kiss*.

If I’m assisted by pencilling in some fingerings or anything else then I’ll do it, life is hard enough without unnecessary struggles. Pencil marks can be temporary, and over the years those that become unnecessary are removed. On the other hand it’s become my habit to mark band pieces such that jumps to the sign and the coda, etc., happen seamlessly. I’m an amateur musician trying to deliver my best possible performance, as such I do what I can with what I’ve got and don’t fuss about the small stuff.

We’re each different and my choices wouldn’t suit others; I really enjoyed playing Trombone but for me returning to Eb Bass was like going back to a happy home - I love it. Everyone in a Brass Band is a team player and it’s hard, impossible even, to decide who are the key players. That aside any band needs a good bass section (without one the band will sound poor) and the Eb Basses lead the Bass section; yep, an Eb Bass seat is a great seat and playing there gives a lot of satisfaction.

2nd tenor wrote: Fri Jul 18, 2025 5:34 am

If I’m assisted by pencilling in some fingerings or anything else then I’ll do it, life is hard enough without unnecessary struggles. Pencil marks can be temporary, and over the years those that become unnecessary are removed. On the other hand it’s become my habit to mark band pieces such that jumps to the sign and the coda, etc., happen seamlessly. I’m an amateur musician trying to deliver my best possible performance, as such I do what I can with what I’ve got and don’t fuss about the small stuff.

I am horrible about marking my parts. You have reminded me I need to do better.

anadmai wrote: Fri Jul 18, 2025 7:16 am I am horrible about marking my parts. You have reminded me I need to do better.

I temporarily divert the thread a little, my apologies to those who are concerned by that; the diversion is to (possibly) assist others and does have some overlapping relevance to the core of the thread (by way of how to make the difficult to do easier).

Marking music up in pencil has allowed me to keep place and pace when an upset would otherwise have very likely happened, let’s explore that further. This morning I pencilled in a few continuation bars ahead of a difficult page turn and (as in my comments in an earlier post above) some pieces have arrowed leader (leading) lines added for navigation. The Floral Dance (Cornish, traditional) is a simple enough piece that we occasionally play; the jumps in it have caught me out a few times - others have been caught out too - so I neatly pencilled in navigation lines on my part. Some other pieces get into either a load of sharps or flats, if I find myself playing some notes incorrectly then I’ll pencil (b, # or even fingering) next to them as a reminder. Some rhythms are tricky so, with pencil marks, I annotate bars into beats and fractions of beats. Perhaps I’m shameless and should be desperately embarrassed by my ineptitude: a proper musician would never need such aids.

At the end of the day I’m an old and very amateur musician who plays for pleasure and tries to produce as good a performance as I reasonably can. Where and as needed pencil marks on my parts help me to play better and I revise some of the marks over time. I really don’t give a dam about whether that’s cheating, or anything negative, or not. A word of warning though: here in the UK every Brass Band Conductor I’ve played under expects players to bring a pencil to rehearsals, but it’s always wise to check the customs of whatever group you’re playing with and (until permitted) I normally abstain from marking music borrowed from anyone.

In parts that I print myself from PDF, which is becoming more and more common, I will use different colored highlighters for things like repeats, DC, DS, Coda. It makes it much easier and I'm not as good at remembering where to go when, as I was even ten years ago. If printed music, I'll xerox it to do that when needed. Some marches, it seems they do it on purpose to make it fit on one page, and no matter that the road map is nearly impossible to follow.