orchestra brass balance

[kingrob76]

Fascinating thread.

As a listener in my earlyish 50's, I've always wanted my recordings to present the sound as close to what I would hear live in a given hall as possible. I always had more of a need for the reference material in that context than anything else. I rarely listen to music for just plain enjoyment, never have, so when I listen a lot of times it's to increase my understanding of the piece (often as a player).

Clearly, brass instruments have continued to be refined in terms of their design over the past 75 years or so, whereas other instrument families haven't changed anywhere near as much. I played 30 years in a local orchestra and was always comfortable playing louder or softer - whatever the MD preferred - with a characteristic sound because I had equipment that allowed me to do so. I'm also with Joe in this regard: when evaluating an instrument I care first about how well it plays softly, and low. If I'm not happy with THAT part of the experience I'm not going to like the horn, but I digress.

I'm left wondering if this isn't a chicken and egg situation - did the sound change because the instruments got better, or, did the instruments get better to change the sound? I like the larger bore trombone sound more than the smaller bore in an orchestral setting but for tubas it isn't as critical to my ears. It's also situational - jazz music to me sounds better on smaller bore trombones.

So in the context of orchestral balance, I'm left with one overriding thought: It's whatever the guy on the podium wants and it's his decision. It's my job to be able to provide that in either direction. I have wondered what composers who haven't lived in 75 years would think of their works and they way they are performed today. I suspect some would be happy and some not, and I suspect most would want to make edits of some sort to their works.

I've always attributed the recording quality differences from an old to a new recording of the same work as limitations of the technology used to make the recording than a conscious decision to make the brass louder, but perhaps this isn't the case.

[matt g]

The evolution of brass instruments in the orchestra is interesting, for sure.

A trumpet player I know once studied with Vacchiano when he was in high school and told me about how Vacchiano was convinced that orchestral trumpet playing would eventually shift to D trumpet. Interesting.

I do think the shift to “brighter” sounding “jazz” (piston valve) trumpets in American orchestras and trickle down effects to horns and then trombonists using (effectively) bass trombones on tenor parts has skewed what works best for the tuba player.

[ProAm]

A trumpet player I know once studied with Vacchiano when he was in high school and told me about how Vacchiano was convinced that orchestral trumpet playing would eventually shift to D trumpet. Interesting.

I have heard something like that but couldn't find the quote I was looking for. I have heard that Vacchiano advocated the D trumpet for principals because it would extend their career by a number of years. He believed the D trumpet made the job of playing those higher parts that much easier.

The use of Eb trumpets on principal parts is becoming more common these days, especially for the more demanding music like modern movie scores.