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I got one of the first 181 F's, Goldbrass with nickel silver guts, 4+2. I played Tommy Johnson's prototype (B&S copy) and I thought Mirafone was on the right track. A former student of mine still had that horn.

bloke wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 1:47 pm There aren't too many piston F tubas with which I'm enamored, but if I had to play one on a job, I'd probably go with the tried and true Yamaha 621 or that Miraphone 1281... but the bore size is so large on that 1281 that I think I would work myself to death if I had to play a long gig on that instrument - particularly, if there was a good bit of high range playing.

I’m curious what you all think of the Gronitz PF 125

russiantuba wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 8:09 am

bloke wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 1:47 pm There aren't too many piston F tubas with which I'm enamored, but if I had to play one on a job, I'd probably go with the tried and true Yamaha 621 or that Miraphone 1281... but the bore size is so large on that 1281 that I think I would work myself to death if I had to play a long gig on that instrument - particularly, if there was a good bit of high range playing.

I’m curious what you all think of the Gronitz PF 125

I'm pretty sure you own one.
I bought one more than a few years ago - maybe a year or so after they came out (used, new condition) because they weren't appearing in any elephant rooms, Gene had bought one, and that made me curious. I played it for about ten minutes, advertised it, and sold it in about a week for a thousand more than I paid.

Not every tuba is a good fit for every player.

bloke wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 10:01 am

russiantuba wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 8:09 am

bloke wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 1:47 pm There aren't too many piston F tubas with which I'm enamored, but if I had to play one on a job, I'd probably go with the tried and true Yamaha 621 or that Miraphone 1281... but the bore size is so large on that 1281 that I think I would work myself to death if I had to play a long gig on that instrument - particularly, if there was a good bit of high range playing.

I’m curious what you all think of the Gronitz PF 125

I'm pretty sure you own one.
I bought one more than a few years ago - maybe a year or so after they came out (used, new condition) because they weren't appearing in any elephant rooms, Gene had bought one, and that made me curious. I played it for about ten minutes, advertised it, and sold it in about a week for a thousand more than I paid.

Not every tuba is a good fit for every player.

I do. To me, it sounds like an Alexander F on steroids (centered, not like deeper, just resonant)—projects very well. Gene sold his because the tuning didn’t match other Fs he was familiar with. I always like the opinions of others

That's the very same reason I only played the one I bought for a few minutes, and then put it up for sale...The tuning didn't match - well... - tuning.

Gene previously owned a "Perantucci" (early handmade version of the later-hydraulically-formed PT-10), which (just as with all the other Symphonie-esque B&S tubas with larger mouthpipes and a valveset bore beginning too large at 19mm) just aren't as good as Symphonie models...Of course, back then all were hand-made, so some of the "Perantucci" models were better than others, and some of the "Symphonie" models were better than others.

bort2.0 wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 11:45 am
Side note, I'm not sure if Alan Baer ever had much to do with the 1281, but he did have some early input on the 1291. I met him years ago, and he gave me an earful about how Miraphone asked for his help to design the 1291, so he built them a great tuba... which they promptly ignored and said that wasn't how they did things. Eventually, they built and released the 1291, which was based on Alan's work but he didn't like it. Hence, the soon-to-follow 1292 was released with the name New Yorker. That tuba was much more in line with his original concept, but by that point, the ship had sailed for the Baer/Miraphone collab. By the time I heard this story, he had been with MW for a while already, and was pretty much always playing MW tubas in the orchestra. At the time, his headshot for the orchestra/press releases was him with a Miraphone tuba and the Miraphone logo front and center. I asked him, what's the deal with that and quickly got a look and a grumbled response... wrong question to ask.

You can still catch him playing his 188 on certain rep (i seem to remember him playing it on Bruckner 8 a few years ago).I asked him about it at the time, and he said it worked for the rep.

None of this first part matters, since you won't find another tuba like this, but two folks have mentioned this specific tuba, so ...

bort2.0 wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 11:45 am I need to remind myself about the Miraphone F tuba that I briefly owned... honestly don't remember much at all about it, except that the 4th and 5th valves were configured to be the same number of steps. I had planned to get the 5th cut down to a normal length but had to sell it for financial reasons before I got to that point.

It was an early 181-ish design or some sort.

I bought this from Brett as my very first F tuba, without having ever tried an F tuba or done much research, so I was dismayed at the tuning.

Brett bought it from Daniel, who cautioned about the 3rd partial C, sort of.

Kontrabasstuba wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:56 am Hello Tuba world!
I'm selling an F-Tuba for my old colleague.
It's a Miraphone F-Tuba Model 81.
Made in the 1980th.
...
Tune is not 100%. It's only the middle C. Its to sharp. But perfect on the 5th valve. The rest is absolute good with some alternative fingerings or a mainslide trigger!
...

I could deal with playing C with 4th valve, but, since I'm not Daniel (and the "mainslide trigger" he hinted at would have to be added), the B and Bb were much more trouble. It did sound really nice, though, and the high end was lovely.

I sold it to Dr. Green's student, who I guess has also learned what to avoid when he gets another F. When I advertised it, I was extremely clear about the tuning and how tuning was the main reason I was selling.

russiantuba wrote: Wed Dec 10, 2025 10:52 pm ... I have a student with the redesigned 181 with the super sharp C and B (had some work done as the 5th valve had the length of a 4th valve and a euro receiver). ...

More relevant for Wade:

I had the next version (?) 181 next (the one that looks just like a Symphonie without the graduated rotors), and it was excellent (to my new F player sensibilities). Solid low end, and intonation that wasn't a fight.

That was a great tuba for a season of brass band, then I found a Symphonie, so it was sold here.

I had them both for a few weeks, and I just enjoyed the Symphonie more. Just a little easier to play, especially high; intonation that even better than the Miraphone that I'd just been so happy with. Little things. As bloke pointed out, there was a lot of variability with the handwork in those tubas, so my pair may not have been representative (and "representative" might not mean much anyway).

Good luck in your quest.

jtm wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 9:16 am None of this first part matters, since you won't find another tuba like this, but two folks have mentioned this specific tuba, so ...

[

I bought this from Brett as my very first F tuba, without having ever tried an F tuba or done much research, so I was dismayed at the tuning.

Brett bought it from Daniel, who cautioned about the 3rd
I could deal with playing C with 4th valve, but, since I'm not Daniel (and the "mainslide trigger" he hinted at would have to be added), the B and Bb were much more trouble. It did sound really nice, though, and the high end was lovely.

I sold it to Dr. Green's student, who I guess has also learned what to avoid when he gets another F. When I advertised it, I was extremely clear about the tuning and how tuning was the main reason I was selling.

Good luck in your quest.

You were clear on it, and with finances, it was the perfect horn, and he is still using it. We worked with one of the top horn repair/modifiers in the Midwest who is the person that is the Miraphone booth representative. We got the horn modified to a flat whole step, 5th valve in the right hand, and most importantly, fixed the receiver. The receiver is what bothered Rob the most and spent a ton of time getting this right. It is still sharp, but much more workable on the C and B.

I haven’t played a good sounding or overall playing F tuba without a C and B that are quite sharp.

Going to throw this out there—if I had an orchestral only job and couldn’t get a good Alexander 155F, I would likely get this horn…

bort2.0 wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2025 11:45 am
Side note, I'm not sure if Alan Baer ever had much to do with the 1281, but he did have some early input on the 1291. I met him years ago, and he gave me an earful about how Miraphone asked for his help to design the 1291, so he built them a great tuba... which they promptly ignored and said that wasn't how they did things. Eventually, they built and released the 1291, which was based on Alan's work but he didn't like it. Hence, the soon-to-follow 1292 was released with the name New Yorker. That tuba was much more in line with his original concept, but by that point, the ship had sailed for the Baer/Miraphone collab. By the time I heard this story, he had been with MW for a while already, and was pretty much always playing MW tubas in the orchestra. At the time, his headshot for the orchestra/press releases was him with a Miraphone tuba and the Miraphone logo front and center. I asked him, what's the deal with that and quickly got a look and a grumbled response... wrong question to ask.

It's interesting how Alan switched from Miraphone to Meinl-Weston. As much as I like and generally prefer Meinl-Westons over Miraphones, I have to say I really enjoy Alan's sound on the Miraphone Firebird F on his first cd "Coast to Coast" moreso than his second cd "Song and Dance", whereas he was using a Meinl-Weston Kodiak F I believe. I'd have to dig out the cd's to check for sure. But I thought he really got *his* sound on that Firebird