Tuba shipping gone wrong

[1 Ton Tommy]

Years ago I worked for an electronic test equipment manufacturer. We shipped a lot of delicate stuff, not just the plastic Digital multimeters in cases of 20 but big multi-hundred thousand dollar bed-of-nails units for production testing. Some of that equipment went air-freight, and was escorted by a factory rep. We also received a lot of in-between stuff for repair/customization costing only a couple tens of thousands; some of it UPS. One of the expediters told me, "If it wasn't for UPS we wouldn't have a job. Yellow never loses anything." He also told me they had never had to file a claim against a truck-freight carrier.

I remodeled a kitchen a couple years ago and ordered a china sink from Italy. It arrived via UPS with an up-charge for lift-gate service I paid to the shipper. It arrived when no one was at the job site. On the box it said, "HEAVY! 2-Man lift! When I saw the box I first went for my camera and took a photo of it where it was delivered. There was no need to open the box, though I and the carpenter did. Another photo showed a crack in the sink and a large chip in the corner. I contacted the shipper and they sent another sink and said keep the broken one. The SHIPPER took it up with UPS and I never heard another word about it. I left a couple of truck tires in the yard so they would have something to bounce it off next time they arrived with one guy and no lift gate... Well, it worked with full oil drums...

[bloke]

I ordered a top-level (fancy Bosch) dishwasher (not commercial, but probably just about the fanciest home model) to replace an old/repairable Bosch (which was needing to be repaired too often).

In the past, I've NOT EVER bought stupid-expensive kitchen appliances, but this HOUSE (which we got for a stupid-low price - dancing across the 2007 (peak) 2008 (crash) "housing bubble" (selling high / buying low) came with all of this top-line stuff, and to buy anything less would have been a mismatch (considering future resale, when we eventually are too old to maintain a place like this).

That having been said, I bought the fancy dishwasher back before the recent-years economic-shutdown/hyper-inflationary/money-printing period, so it was only about $1300 (and no sales tax, since the store from which I purchased it only had one store in one state). It was a fabulous price... but it arrived trashed. They sent another one, and they had that one picked up...no hassle.

[bort2.0]

That is 100% NOT the way to package a tuba, and I agree with UPS that the tuba was insufficiently packaged. And even for "insufficient," it was done pretty poorly. The only thing that I can figure is that the small beach ball did not sustain any damage during transport.

10+ years ago, I bought a Rudy 4/4 CC tuba, and it was shipped to me in roughly a similar manner as what you've shown here. Maybe a few more packing peanuts, and a gig bag, but the result was the same. Like you, I also filed a claim with UPS. However, I was successful in my insurance claim -- the seller of my horn took it to a UPS store and paid to have it packed and shipped. So while the UPS insurance adjuster ruled that it was damaged due to insufficient packaging, it was packaged by a UPS store, they were liable for it.

The UPS store sent me a check for the full repair quote amount and I got it within a few days.

I'm guessing UPS stores are franchises that are locally owned and operated, but the one that I worked with was very professional and excellent to work with. Honestly, I think the store owner realized they f-ed up and never should have agreed to ship it in the first place. He also seemed to understand how expensive tubas are, and that this was a pretty big deal -- he was quite happy to write a check to settle with me and make the whole issue go away.

Since then, I've made it a point to insure my instruments with Clarion before the instrument is shipped to me. I haven't had to file a claim with them, but I'd like to think it would be helpful. Maybe it wouldn't, thought. But it helps me sleep at night when I'm shipping/receiving tubas.

Really sorry you had to go through this. It's heartbreaking to open the box and see what you saw.

[bloke]

Clarion rates have skyrocketed (duh: due to skyrocketing prices of instruments, skyrocketing thefts, and skyrocketing shipper mishandling).

I (mostly) don't ship tubas (crazy expensive - now - in the USA, and risky as heck, particularly with the typical American employee referring to stuff they deal with as "sh!t").
...and we really shouldn't be required to pack ASSUMING our package is going to be abused, but yet (and re-read the previous sentence)...
Either those buying them come to me,
if I'm buying, I go to them, or -
sometimes - I'll meet someone at some calculated halfway point.

AGAIN...
Is anything headed FROM Chicagoland TO, NEAR, OR PAST Memphis (for Thanksgiving or Christmas) and then back?
(gas money available to bring down a tuba which needs a new bell installed (a new bell which is here), and then taken back to the owner of the tuba).

[Mary Ann]

I guess cellos are less fragile than tubas. Two of them shipped here recently, in hard cases, and with both, the bridge had shifted a half inch or so. A very solid whack as they threw it onto the conveyer belt. The first one, the shipper paid UPS $600 to pack and ship it with approximately 5 billion peanuts (and they about fainted at the cost) and the second, it had fitted styrofoam blocks holding the case in the box. Both had the cello wedged well in the case.
You would think cellos would be more fragile, but I think not. You have to assume that UPS is going to a) throw it down a flight of stairs, end-over-end, and that b) a fork lift tine IS going to go into the box.

And not send it to Wade.

[donn]

I'm pretty sure tubas are more fragile than cellos, in terms of the ratio of force to strength in a package impact. To make up for it, a cello with glued up fractures is probably a hair worse off than de-dented tuba.

[ParLawGod]

I once bought a Mirafone 186 on eBay, and the seller dropped it off at a UPS store (and they did the "packing"). Arrived in a box with ZERO packing material. Bell was mangled and the fourth rotor no longer worked. Was repairable, but I took pictures immediately upon opening...seller was great and helped me out with UPS and we were both made whole financially. I will never trust the UPS Store to pack anything.

[bloke]

I once bought a Mirafone 186 on eBay, and the seller dropped it off at a UPS store (and they did the "packing"). Arrived in a box with ZERO packing material. Bell was mangled and the fourth rotor no longer worked. Was repairable, but I took pictures immediately upon opening...seller was great and helped me out with UPS and we were both made whole financially. I will never trust the UPS Store to pack anything.

YET...
If you don't pay those franchisees' confiscatory rates for their incompetence, UPS won't honor a damage claim.

That is WHY the ONLY reasonably safe option is driving to where the tuba is located.

again...
I might be tempted to file a small claims lawsuit, and represent myself.
In Memphis (where I filed one before and won - regarding an incompetent HVAC repair - which ruined a ceiling and new carpet), it cost me $39 to file, and I represented myself.

Having to pay for the consequences of poor equipment maintenance, it's no wonder that they make every attempt to economize when it comes to covering damage claims.

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com ... febad0.pdf

[1 Ton Tommy]

Could these stories contribute to the reason UPS stock in down 40% over the past 2 years?

[bloke]

Could these stories contribute to the reason UPS stock in down 40% over the past 2 years?

maybe...
- less work with Amazon
- global demand drop post economic shutdown
- less bought from China, due to finally hitting them with tariffs (after all these years, retaliating against China's c. 33% tariffs - on average - against US goods)
- cash flow has not kept up with dividend payouts
- new Teamsters contract cost is epically higher cost than the previous
- overall drop in enthusiasm in regards to investing in logistics stocks

Tubas are no thicker than trumpets, yet epically/geometrically larger.
Imagine a skyscraper built a strong as a typical residential house...
Shipping is good for stuff like car parts (as long as not body panels), bottles of pills, tuba mouthpieces , and stuff like that.

[donn]

I've had tubas shipped to me in ridiculously inadequate packaging. For some reason, it seems to be matter less if you're sending from overseas - Deutsche Post in both cases if I remember right. I also picked up a tuba that had come to grief probably the same way, with a previous owner - not only damage to the bell, but the case was broken. Plenty of damage, anyway, in my instruments' histories - and fine instruments after repair. UPS et al. just do this for the benefit of the musical instrument repair industry, and to give repair technicians a chance to go over your instrument while repairing it and make sure it's 100%.

[tofu]

I once bought a Mirafone 186 on eBay, and the seller dropped it off at a UPS store (and they did the "packing"). Arrived in a box with ZERO packing material. Bell was mangled and the fourth rotor no longer worked. Was repairable, but I took pictures immediately upon opening...seller was great and helped me out with UPS and we were both made whole financially. I will never trust the UPS Store to pack anything.

I hear ya, but I’ve got the opposite story. Bought a horn on Ebay as well. Talked to the seller (estate sale) and gave her the Norm Pearson packing instructions and told her to pack it like that and ship it via Greyhound. The price included UPS shipping. She agrees (Greyhound a lot less cost and apparently she’s close to the terminal in Miami). In the meantime I get injured and break a leg so I’m not staying right on top of this. I get a UPS notification they have my package and an estimated delivery date. WHAT? So from bed that ignites some frantic calling. She decided to have the local UPS store do the packing and (I assume they talk her into shipping via UPS). She tells me she gave them the instructions I sent her. Oh no - I assume this is going to be a total disaster and no way to stop it at this point as it’s now in transit. I’m gritting my teeth waiting…

It arrives on time. I’m still home convalescing when it arrives and I talk to my local driver (a good guy) and he wheels it in the garage. The box is pristine. I grabbed my razor cutter and open the box and then the internal box. My God this is the greatest packing job I have ever seen. They followed the instructions precisely. Both are very sturdy boxes. The horn is in perfect condition. I was totally blown away. And then I thought it must have cost her a fortune to have them pack it like this. They easily spent over an hour packing it plus all the materials. Add in UPS shipping cost (higher from the store) and I figured (this is maybe around 2016 or so) around $375 or more - it was also a Mirafone - I had paid her $100 to ship (what she had quoted) - and she never asked for more.

So I’d say how they pack a tuba is going to be highly dependent on the quality of that franchise store as well as giving them very explicit instructions. Thank you Norm Pearson - your instructions have gotten 5 tubas where they needed to be in perfect shape. I do feel I got lucky in this case that the sellers used the instructions and the UPS store was a well run one. Still felt at the time I had dodged a bullet.

[bort2.0]

It's been a few years, but 2 hours of packing and $375 for materials and shipping sounds pretty accurate to me.

[Schlitzz]

While this is a family site, getting packed and shipped for $375, sounds like this was solved using the Army SNAFU method. Using a trombone slide pine wood box, styrofoam/foam, and some wood screws, my package left a UPS store in East Bremeloville, WA, to Texas just fine. Declared value of $900. Shipped ground for 96.80.

Ufda.

1. Going to Blue Lake, and completing a 6 year enlistment in the Army is bad.

2. Yes, dumb people are being laid off there, more so with the plane crash. They’re also reproducing.

3. A lot of you never had a conductor like this:

[thedancingsousa]

Maybe not the point of the thread, but I recently had great success with a tuba being shipped to me via u-ship.

You input the dimensions of the cargo you need transported, as well as the start and end points. Individual couriers put bids in for your job, and you can read their reviews and such. My horn was shipped in nothing but its gig bag. The courier had a big trailer on the back of his truck, and drove it from southern Florida all the way to New England with the tuba sitting comfortably in the back seat while he transported other, equally-if-not-more expensive things like cars in the trailer. Cost $440 dollars all in.

[Lee Stofer]

Tofu,
There's now an additional strike against UPS. Several months ago, our local UPS terminal closed it's customer service office, meaning that I can no
longer deliver a shipment (of any kind) to my local terminal. If I do ship anything with UPS, I drop it off at Ace Hardware in town, and then it gets a ride to the terminal. And, if you're looking to pick up a package at the terminal, nope.

[Mary Ann]

Same here. Customers can no longer go to the terminal, and they stopped letting you find out where the truck is so you can receive your package without being stuck at home all day because they are unable to give anything even close to ballpark of when it will arrive. It is like they are actually trying to destroy themselves.

[Mary Ann]

While this is a family site, getting packed and shipped for $375, sounds like this was solved using the Army SNAFU method. Using a trombone slide pine wood box, styrofoam/foam, and some wood screws, my package left a UPS store in East Bremeloville, WA, to Texas just fine. Declared value of $900. Shipped ground for 96.80.

Ufda.

1. Going to Blue Lake, and completing a 6 year enlistment in the Army is bad.

2. Yes, dumb people are being laid off there, more so with the plane crash. They’re also reproducing.

3. A lot of you never had a conductor like this:

Who is that lady? Here we have Lorelai who was the first ever Navy band director. She had a local band for a few years (the one I am now playing oboe in) but "health stuff" happened and now she doesnt do much. Trumpet player, big woman.

[graybach]

@Mary Ann

That’s her. It’s the same lady you know. That photo is from the United States Naval Academy Band history page,
roughly 3/4 of the way down the page.

https://www.usna.edu/USNABand/about/history.php

The caption under it reads,
“Musician 1st Class Lorelei Conrad rehearsing the Concert Band.”

The photo of then-Musician 1st Class Conrad was not labeled with a date, but the United States Naval Academy Band put everything on that history page in chronological order, and the photo before it is from 1990, and the photo after it is from 1991, so the photo of her is from either 1990 or 1991.

Her bio, (which I lifted off of your concert band page. She is listed as Conductor Laureate):

“Lorelei Allison Conrad, LCDR, USN, Ret. began her professional career as a US Navy Musician first as an enlisted trumpet player with the US Naval Academy Band and later making naval history as the first woman to receive a commission as Ensign, becoming the first woman to serve as a Navy Limited Duty Bandmaster. Her assignments included Director of Navy Band San Francisco; Associate Conductor, US Navy Band, Washington DC; Interim Music Liaison Officer for Chief of Information at the Pentagon; Fleet Bandmaster, US Seventh Fleet in Yokosuka, Japan; Director of Training Armed Forces School of Music; and Fleet Bandmaster, US Atlantic Fleet.”