I've done this thing in the past where I was teaching myself how equal temperament thirds and sixths sound.
It required two inexpensive tuners.
I had a drone and an earbud off of one of the tuners, and the other tuner was picking up the sound that I was producing with my instrument. I would get the pitch that I was playing in tune according to the tuner and then listen to the pretty ugly dissonance between that pitch that I was producing and the drone that was in my ear.
Don't play sharp.
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bloke
- Mid South Music
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Re: Don't play sharp.
I find that trying to match (reach, control) a pitch while playing tuba (or other low brass instruments) often leads to playing too sharp. I am not sure why, maybe something with the fact that lots of overtones in our sounds makes it difficult for our ears to stick to something trustful.
Instead, developing the ears to play beatless with a drone, to instinctively blend with the pitch instead of controlling our embouchure to match it is the way to go. When you start doing that while playing with a tuner, the tuner might tell you are sharp, and it doesn't lie! And if you drop your pitch to what the tuner says, you might fell very flat compare to the drone, but that's where you need to learn to play. By learning to listen and trust the beats.
A french horn player once ask me, while preparing for a low french horn audition, which tuner I was using for low frequency, because the tuner was always telling it was sharp. It ended up we were using the same tuner. I told the player the same exact thing as above. The player won the job.
As for playing flat in orchestra, it's not about playing flat, but keeping the pitch where it is with the strings. The strings pitch doesn't generally go up during a concert, like the brass pitch does. If anything it goes a bit flat. So "playing flat" is about staying with the strings pitch, encouraging the other brass players to do so. Everyone will be happy.
Playing with equal temperament is a compromise, but if you learned to play beatless, it will be much easier to find that compromise.
Instead, developing the ears to play beatless with a drone, to instinctively blend with the pitch instead of controlling our embouchure to match it is the way to go. When you start doing that while playing with a tuner, the tuner might tell you are sharp, and it doesn't lie! And if you drop your pitch to what the tuner says, you might fell very flat compare to the drone, but that's where you need to learn to play. By learning to listen and trust the beats.
A french horn player once ask me, while preparing for a low french horn audition, which tuner I was using for low frequency, because the tuner was always telling it was sharp. It ended up we were using the same tuner. I told the player the same exact thing as above. The player won the job.
As for playing flat in orchestra, it's not about playing flat, but keeping the pitch where it is with the strings. The strings pitch doesn't generally go up during a concert, like the brass pitch does. If anything it goes a bit flat. So "playing flat" is about staying with the strings pitch, encouraging the other brass players to do so. Everyone will be happy.
Playing with equal temperament is a compromise, but if you learned to play beatless, it will be much easier to find that compromise.
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bloke
- Mid South Music
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- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
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Re: Don't play sharp.
"playing with strings"...
I asked the principal bass player - several times - whether I was ever being a pig, and playing out-of-tune with them (as they are really a good bass section).
The last time I asked, I got this answer:
"To tell the truth, when you're over there playing the tuba, we sorta tune to you."
----------------------------------
"...ok...but is that bad, and - when doing so - do you perceive that I'm ever forcing you to play pitches at frequencies whereby you were wish you were playing that "note" at a different frequency?"
---------------------------------
"nope?"
---------------------------------
"Are you really being honest with me?"
---------------------------------
"yep"
=====================================================
If any of you have a sophisticated keyboard whereby it offers different tuning systems, sometime have it play a big "orchestral" (perhaps four-octave) chord. Have it play with equal temperament tuning, then perfect-interval tuning, and then with typical piano tuning. I'd wager that the piano-tuning chord will sound more like what you're accustomed to hearing (regardless of the synthesized tones selected). I suspect that orchestras' individual musicians tend to tune (though orchestras are remarkably flexible) a bit like pianos are tuned...a wee bit sharp in the treble instruments, a wee bit flat in the bass instruments, and roughly at A=44X in the horns/violas/and other (lower population) "mezzo"-voiced instruments.
Certainly, when I'm playing a tonic and another/other instruments are playing a "perfect" 5th higher (or a 12th higher), I'm going to FLATTEN my pitch (unless theirs is raised) in order to remove the "grind". ie. STRETCH the tuning.
Finally, when (OK...remarkably fine) ensembles "sit" on chords - or play big harmonies at slow tempi - the tuning is going to become more perfect-interval oriented, and - when a tempo is fast and loaded with technical passages, players are going to lean more towards equal temperament tuning (at least, those playing the technical passages).
I asked the principal bass player - several times - whether I was ever being a pig, and playing out-of-tune with them (as they are really a good bass section).
The last time I asked, I got this answer:
"To tell the truth, when you're over there playing the tuba, we sorta tune to you."
----------------------------------
"...ok...but is that bad, and - when doing so - do you perceive that I'm ever forcing you to play pitches at frequencies whereby you were wish you were playing that "note" at a different frequency?"
---------------------------------
"nope?"
---------------------------------
"Are you really being honest with me?"
---------------------------------
"yep"
=====================================================
If any of you have a sophisticated keyboard whereby it offers different tuning systems, sometime have it play a big "orchestral" (perhaps four-octave) chord. Have it play with equal temperament tuning, then perfect-interval tuning, and then with typical piano tuning. I'd wager that the piano-tuning chord will sound more like what you're accustomed to hearing (regardless of the synthesized tones selected). I suspect that orchestras' individual musicians tend to tune (though orchestras are remarkably flexible) a bit like pianos are tuned...a wee bit sharp in the treble instruments, a wee bit flat in the bass instruments, and roughly at A=44X in the horns/violas/and other (lower population) "mezzo"-voiced instruments.
Certainly, when I'm playing a tonic and another/other instruments are playing a "perfect" 5th higher (or a 12th higher), I'm going to FLATTEN my pitch (unless theirs is raised) in order to remove the "grind". ie. STRETCH the tuning.
Finally, when (OK...remarkably fine) ensembles "sit" on chords - or play big harmonies at slow tempi - the tuning is going to become more perfect-interval oriented, and - when a tempo is fast and loaded with technical passages, players are going to lean more towards equal temperament tuning (at least, those playing the technical passages).