Elephant's Conservatory

[tubanh84]

yeah...but so many tubas today (as well as mouthpieces) are designed to CLOAK MEDIOCRE TONE PRODUCTION...

I'll defer to you there. I play a Gnagey, Miraphone 184, and MW 182. So "tubas today" is a foreign concept to me. I tested an Eastman 832 for about 5 minutes once and was astounded at how locked in it was. But it was just me in a tiny room, so I don't take much from it.

I've just spent a lot of time listening to people play whose teachers clearly focus on lip slurs, scales, and other exercises WITHOUT working on tone, and it has always been jarring to me.

[arpthark]

yeah...but so many tubas today (as well as mouthpieces) are designed to CLOAK MEDIOCRE TONE PRODUCTION...

I'll defer to you there. I play a Gnagey, Miraphone 184, and MW 182. So "tubas today" is a foreign concept to me. I tested an Eastman 832 for about 5 minutes once and was astounded at how locked in it was. But it was just me in a tiny room, so I don't take much from it.

Sidebar:

That Eastman was mine for two years, and was really a fantastic horn. Intonation was stupid easy. But I ultimately found the sound a little bland for my taste and moved on to Alexes and Yorks and a whole bunch of other cans of worms.

/sidebar

[the elephant]

… the majority of audition panels will NOT know if you are playing a BBb or a CC tuba.

None of them will, for an orchestral audition. As a matter of fact, most will not be aware that there are tubas in different keys, only that there are "big" and "small" tubas.

And (outside of our friends in Deutschland), they will not care about this. Violinists usually are not aware that tubas come in different keys. They just aren't. Neither are most other non-brass players. Why would they? Teachers who tell you that a panel can hear which contrabasses are in BBb and which are in CC are full of it, or they have never sat on a professional orchestra audition committee.

What they hear (from most candidates, even at the top-tier orchestra auditions) is faulty intonation, faulty time keeping, and faulty rhythmic accuracy.

If you do not advance at an audition, it is ALWAYS due to bad time, rhythm, and intonation. There will be other things specific to your playing, but if you want to know why you failed, record yourself repeatedly, obsessively even, until you can play all the excerpts back-to-back, in a single take. Once you can do that, you will get a better picture of your failings. Before you can do that and you have no business applying to an audition.

Do not go to auditions for "experience," or you will anger the committee. They are there to work, not to mess around with you. Do not ask for comments, as most are restricted from that by their internal audition rules, and many would be unwilling unless you can stomach comments like "SUCKS A$$," "YUCK," "COUNTS LIKE A PRESCHOOLER," or whatever else will help them to more easily remember how you played versus the rest of the pack. Comments are not meant for you to read. An audition is not a learning activity or Musical Funtime — it is a serious job interview. To show up with no realistic expectation of winning the gig is scummy. I don't care whether you like this. It is a fact.

If you show up and can't absolutely play your ASS off, you will be dismissed as soon as the committee has decided that you are not going to play any better than that.

You will have traveled, spent money and time, and worked very hard to play a single excerpt only to hear, "Thank you, that will be all." You really want to hang around for another six or eight hours to get comments for a single excerpt? One, you played so poorly that you were cut before finishing it? That is a special type of stupid right there, man. Also, after having sat there for eight hours, you expect the committee to hang around for another fifteen minutes to tell you something YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WEEKS EARLIER BECAUSE YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE AND RECORDED YOURSELF OBSESSIVELY.

Auditions are nothing at all like mock auditions. It is very expensive to pay a full committee to sit there for that many hours, too, so a lot of Personnel Managers will rush the committee out of the building, which is usually rented for a specific amount ot time and anything over that costs the orchestra extra.

Also, do not try to record yourself while in the hot seat. You will be dismissed instantly as per the master agreements of pretty much ALL unionized orchestras.

Practice until you can perhaps win or at least advance, then go to auditions. Don't waste everyone's time. You do not need "experience" to win. You need to win to win, no experience necessary.

Finally — DO NOT WASTE EVERYONE'S VALUABLE TIME BY ATTENDING AN AUDITION FOR A GIG THAT YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO MOVE THERE TO PLAY. Orchestras are now asking whether anyone who advances to finals intends to take the gig and move to that community. If not, they are summarily dismissed.

Again, this is not a contest but a job interview. Treat it as such and be properly prepared if you want a job. Don't be a rude, self-centered person and come to get experience, or if you don't want the job. Period.

Personnel managers talk to each other on occasion. Make sure that they are not talking about you.

Keep in mind that all committee members are trapped there for many hours and can't eat, pee, or play on their phones. NONE of them wants to hear bad playing. It is a nightmare to sit through a bad audition. Everyone is silently screaming, "COME ON! YOU CAN DO IT! COME ON, MAN!" An audition committee is the harshest audience you will ever perform for; it is also the friendliest one. They WANT you to succeed. So don't piss all over them by showing up and playing unsat.

[MiBrassFS]

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[bloke]

ancient history:

I was the runner up to Jenkins in Alabama (was it 3:00 a.m.?), and all I had was a 184.

It's like percussion instruments:
We hear boom crash, and they'll talk about the different kinds of boom crashes for hours and hours.

[russiantuba]

Finally — DO NOT WASTE EVERYONE'S VALUABLE TIME BY ATTENDING AN AUDITION FOR A GIG THAT YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO MOVE THERE TO PLAY. Orchestras are now asking whether anyone who advances to finals intends to take the gig and move to that community. If not, they are summarily dismissed.

I suppose they can ask, but it seems to me that many people today think nothing of wasting other’s time and resources and will lie for their own benefit and/or convenience. They seem to ascribe to the belief that the truth is for suckers and losers.

None of this is really any of my business as I no longer teach anyone and would never think of auditioning for anything mostly because this modern world is tiresome to me.

‘Just hiding down in my “think hole…”’

For most orchestras that have less than full-time pay or pay per service, most won’t move there. But at least be willing to take the gig and position if you win. I’ve played in these groups and the conductor stays in a hotel room and in one case, the conductor lives in Canada.

I mentioned on the West Texas Symphony gig about the requirement to live in Midland-Odessa. It’s about 2 hours from Lubbock and Midland, which for a more “regional” orchestra is a standard drive. One in Ohio we have had contracted members commute from western Tennessee and Richmond, VA. Several drive in from Chicago. The again, for a 6 service one I took recently within a 3 hour drive from where I live, had candidates travel from Utah and Washington State.

I won’t name the player, but even in the tuba world, there is a well known name that won 5-6 full time auditions that he didn’t take the position before winning his even bigger position. I agree that is a waste of the committee’s time if you aren’t planning to at least take the position or fight to negotiate pay.

[MiBrassFS]

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[JC2]

A lot of good points here. Some interesting opinions too…

I would say this: the standard to win a job is nowhere near as high as you might believe. However, most people overestimate their own playing ability by a long way, especially when under stress. How many of you on this forum think you could play 3-4 excerpts in front of an audience to a point of adequacy? Be honest with yourself. Record yourself and be horrified.

I would also say this: A bad sound is unforgivable. Doesn’t matter if you play perfectly in tune, in time etc. you will never win with a poor sound. I’ll stop listening within 2 seconds if the sound isn’t right.

Tone, time, tuning and style. If you get all of these to a high level you’ll be in the top few.

[MiBrassFS]

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[JC2]

Yes absolutely, you want to strive for the highest standards possible. No questions about that.

To win a job requires a high standard but not thaaaat high, but you’d surprised what you can get away with. If you play exciting with a fantastic sound and the ticking all the right boxes, the committee quickly doesn’t care if you chip a couple of notes.

There’s some great jobs out there, not just in orchestra, that pay very well. I’m by no means the best tuba player in the world, in fact nowhere near, but I live comfortably.

[bloke]

When it's fairly good paying jobs, it's a pretty consistent theme that the chosen applicant is already known by someone influential on the committee. This is one reason why so many conservatory students are aggressive about playing at summer festivals.

The market has become so gluted with applicants in the past couple of decades that the same has become true for all the jobs that don't pay very much...

...but/and yes, there are certainly plenty of applicants who show up and play poorly. One of my repair customers wants me to fix up their $2,000 Chinese instrument, because - after three years - they've decided to start playing again, and they want to audition for a currently open full-time position.

[Three Valves]

OTOH, a man gots to know his limits.

And the sooner he finds them, the less costly it will be.

Said the underachieving retired insurance guy.