MaryAnn: Messina Bag Photos

[bloke]

One bag/one instrument/back seat/seat belted...probably fine...

...but I'm sorta different - in my needs/requirements - from most people.

When cases become a bit too heavy, I'll pull up to the stage door, set them inside, and go park...WHICH IS WHAT I ALREADY DO.

[Rick Denney]

Everyone has their own requirements, and one person's requirements doesn't mean they can dictate usage to a person with different requirements.

My rehearsals are in a church, and sometimes in a school band room. When in the latter, the door is locked and someone has to open it from the inside for every person who enters. And it's a hundred feet from the nearest curb parking. And requires a flight of steps. No practical way to carry a big tuba in a hard case into that band room without having to lift and schlep it--meaning, not using its rollers. And then then having to walk back down to the car, go park it in the nearest available space (a thousand feet away), and walk back, only to have to beg someone to let me in again? Uh, no.

It's easier at the church, but not enough easier.

And there's just no freaking place in my house for hard cases big enough for a 44"-tall kaiser rotary tuba, unless I'm willing to carry it up and down stairs every time I used it. Uh, no.

I use a hard case when it's practical; meaning, the tuba is small enough that the case is manageable even when I have to lift and carry it a ways. That's true with the case that came with the 184, and it's true for the Yamaha 621. I tried to see if the semi-hard case for the Wessex kaiser would fit my Hirsbrunner, but it does not. Yes, I would like better protection for the Hirsbrunner. I just haven't found a practical way to make it happen and still be able to use the instrument.

So, I use a really good bag--a Götz triple-padded Supersac. It opens on the side, but is not a clamshell design and so doesn't have a zipper line across the face of the bell. It's the only bag I've ever owned that I think is as good as a Cronkhite. I can carry the Hirsbrunner over one shoulder with that bag, but it's still heavy.

Rick "tubas are safe when they never leave the practice room, but that's not what tubas are for" Denney

[bloke]

That kaiser Miraphone that I sold is now in upstate New York. I wonder if they want the case. It's one of those 1970's Australia-made elegant wood cases with curved wood and fits very closely against the instrument. You may think that there's little chance that it will fit your tall Hirsbrunner, but the Miraphone is 45 in tall. The bell is only 17-1/3 inches in diameter, but I suspect that an inch more bell might tuck into that case.
It's probably 15 lbs. heavier than a bag, but it's quite a nice and well-preserved case. I feel certain that FatBastard would not fit in it.

If you are someone who might use hard cases sometimes, I think I know of a giant workshop not too far from your house where they could be stored.

[Rick Denney]

That kaiser Miraphone that I sold is now in upstate New York. I wonder if they want the case. It's one of those 1970's Australia-made elegant wood cases with curved wood and fits very closely against the instrument. You may think that there's little chance that it will fit your tall Hirsbrunner, but the Miraphone is 45 in tall. The bell is only 17-1/3 inches in diameter, but I suspect that an inch more bell might tuck into that case.
It's probably 15 lbs. heavier than a bag, but it's quite a nice and well-preserved case. I feel certain that FatBastard would not fit in it.

If you are someone who might use hard cases sometimes, I think I know of a giant workshop not too far from your house where they could be stored.

Heh. That giant workshop has shrunk! I don't know how it happened.

Rick "no shop is ever big enough" Denney

[Rick Denney]

That kaiser Miraphone that I sold is now in upstate New York. I wonder if they want the case. It's one of those 1970's Australia-made elegant wood cases with curved wood and fits very closely against the instrument. You may think that there's little chance that it will fit your tall Hirsbrunner, but the Miraphone is 45 in tall. The bell is only 17-1/3 inches in diameter, but I suspect that an inch more bell might tuck into that case.
It's probably 15 lbs. heavier than a bag, but it's quite a nice and well-preserved case. I feel certain that FatBastard would not fit in it.

If you are someone who might use hard cases sometimes, I think I know of a giant workshop not too far from your house where they could be stored.

Oh, and the Hirsbrunner has a 19" bell, so traditional kaiser cases aren't usually big enough for the bell.

Ray Grim used to have a case he found in Germany that fit his 186 very closely. It oriented the tuba bell-stack down, and that makes them a lot less bulky in use for some reason. They don't have to have an unused empty corner above the upper bow where the case wheels go. I thought that case design was clever and effective. I think the case has given its life for its cause over the years, so Ray is using a gig bag these days. Nobody seems to make them that way any more.

Back in the day I made a coffin case for my 186, but could never get it into and out of my cars of that time without scratching things. I still have it somewhere up in storage.

Rick "might have to make something" Denney

[bloke]

@Rick Denney

I took a peek inside this laptop, and found this not-deleted pic:

[PlayTheTuba]

Outside of ordering an Accord case, I was thinking maybe a modified hard case that is designed for the 3+1 BBb's? The Yamaha YBB-632 Neo comes to mind.

The Yamaha YBB-632 Neo BBb is listed to have a height of 1048mm (41.26 inches) which is below 44 inches that your Kaiser is. The Yamaha does have a 500mm (19 5/8" or 19.625" in decimal form) diameter bell though.

Yes the YBB-632 has the valves are on the other direction plus the case is still mostly likely pre molded like the ones offered for their other instruments. But a one-piece, relatively light weight hard case, and more affordable than a custom Accord is the best that I I could think of at a moments notice.

Yamaha YBB-632 Neo specs. Not entirely sure why the USA."webpage" doesn't list all of the specs.
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/m ... specs.html

Hardcase: BBC-632

CCCBEF3E6203408EBBDF2982929E5775_12074_240x174_d005984d45c5a84c520066335b6cda00.jpg (7.3 KiB) Viewed 8803 times

Case image was found at this site. The url says ybb621, for some reason, but it does pull up the YBB632 tuba like it should.
https://www.theinstrumentplace.com/yama ... -1047.html

[BRS]

.

[Rick Denney]

@Rick Denney

Was the case Ray Grim had possibly a Kariso? They orient the bell down. Nice cases.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/kariso_bag ... _tuba.html

Yes! Maybe not that brand (it was about 45 years ago) but certainly that is the design. And the price is not unreasonable (though I bet shipping from Germany is no small thing).

I've searched for these before but never found them--thank you.

Notice the flat top corner? That corner is usually facing the ground on conventional cases, and can't be flattened and still put a corner down onto the ground (especially if there are wheels). Removing that corner dramatically improves the case's ability to fit in cars and trunks, in my experience. This case should be little or no more space-consuming than a gig bag.

Rick "saving money now" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Outside of ordering an Accord case, I was thinking maybe a modified hard case that is designed for the 3+1 BBb's? The Yamaha YBB-632 Neo comes to mind.

Top-action tubas are really flat front to back (except for the bell) and the cases can be a low narrower. They usually do not have a sufficient cavity for the valve mechanism for front-action tubas (either rotary or piston). The Yamaha case for my YFB621 has a bump molded in it to provide a cavity for the pistons.

Inches matter, of course. A half-inch too small might as well be a foot.

Rick "the Hirsbrunner kaiser is 1120mm tall with a 480mm bell" Denney

[bloke]

If (??) that Yamaha case is made of the same thin plastic as they've been made from in the past, I would rate them as something to avoid.

Several years ago, thinwall carbon fiber was going to be the solution whereby we could use hard cases that only weighed as much as bags, but actually they were not as lightweight as bags, and - when presented with the airline challenge - they cracked to bits.. at least those that I've seen that have been stuck underneath airplanes.

I'm thinking someone else came up with a thickwall carbon fiber case that could be adapted for any tuba and that resembled a curbside trash cart. I've not seen any of those used anywhere.

[Mary Ann]

Ask the current mechanical engineering class at MIT (which in the past has had to construct a "case" such that a raw egg dropped from the roof of a building does not break upon hitting the ground) to design a tuba case that is lightweight, un-bulky, and protective against airline personnel. Probably though, the egg case is like the old Saabs and itself is destroyed on impact.

[Mary Ann]

Just found THIS:

[bloke]

That's interesting, but they are never able to open up the eggs and examine (not just their yokes, but) microscopic-level examinations of the embryos.

======================================================

Those lightweight (in vogue for a year or two) carbon-fiber cases:

Not only were those smashed up (and those things cost about the same as competitively-priced Jinbao tubas' retail prices), but the tubas were smashed up as well.

[travisd]

I use a Miraphone bag with my Mack horn... I've taken to flipping the lid over the back of a chair (from the back) which hold the case open nicely and lets me use two hands to guide the horn into it.

[Doc]

I use a Miraphone bag with my Mack horn... I've taken to flipping the lid over the back of a chair (from the back) which hold the case open nicely and lets me use two hands to guide the horn into it.

^^^THIS!^^^

[bloke]

Considering how much more damage resistant violins are, as they are smaller, thicker, dent resistant, and easier to protect, we should go to a violin chat room and ask them why they don't use bags, and why they all use cases.

[Rick Denney]

Considering how much more damage resistant violins are, as they are smaller, thicker, dent resistant, and easier to protect, we should go to a violin chat room and ask them why they don't use bags, and why they all use cases.

Because they are small and the cases still fit in the overhead compartment of an airplane, versus not fitting in the trunk of a car or the doorway of a transit bus.

Rick "and they are worth 10 to 1000 times as much" Denney

[bloke]

In your signature, I believe you may have left the work "yet" out after the word "and". You may not have, but - had you done so - it would reflected my views more closely.

Some of us carry around instruments that are worth as much as some pretty darn good violins, yet most of us who do carry them around in thinly padded sacks, with my point being that most of our giant, thin, easy-to-damage instruments - which are worth as much as some pretty darn good violins - are carried around in little more than a sack with a leather or nylon handle on it.

A $25,000 violin in a $1,000 case would probably faire well in most automobile accidents and certainly most casual bumps, but how well would a $25,000 tuba in a sack faire in most automobile accidents or casual bumps? (...and with an added factor being that handmade tubas are often only about a half of a millimeter thick)

Yes, I'm aware that many violins cost more than that, but I believe you would find that most working violinists' instruments don't exceed that cost by much. Further, I spelled "fare" incorrectly actually for more clarity of which meaning of the word I was using... whether or not it was effective. (??)

[bloke]

I assume you meant "case" instead of "bag" in the second sentence.

Yes. Cases are heavier and plastic ones are slicker, but to claim that nylon or leather bags stick like glue to seats or smooth plastic in vehicles (or smooth backstage tabletops) is pretty silly.

This is my tuba.
Tubas are always dented, they are supposed to be dented, and that's that...so quit asking "How did that happen?"

It's not tubas' fault that they are large, bulky, and delicate.

If I'm still playing well enough and end up not being able to handle a tuba+case that may weigh 45 - 60 lbs., I'll drop it off inside the door and go park (as I already do) and maybe even ask for some assistance. (We're supposed to help each other, yes?)

bloke "Mostly what I transport - in the back of this thing - are tubas. Old pillows and quilts (rather than having been discarded) are in the back and are placed around the cases. Additionally, I always place them - in their hard cases - all the way forward (with no room for sliding when some idiot driver pulls some stunt), and with the bottom bows (multiple times more resistant to damage) facing forward as well...but yes, I used (the most expensive/best) bags in the past. I wish I hadn't."