Dies Irae

[cjk]

After listening to all of these, I find myself wondering what it would sound like with the "tuba" parts played on one tuba and one baritone saxophone.

[bloke]

Mostly, it's usually played too damn loud. It's not supposed to be obnoxious and out of place. Rather, it's supposed to be ominous and frightening. I'm thinking about the worst I ever heard was an LAPO recording, and I hope it wasn't the players' idea but the music director's idea.

There is so little for the second tuba to do (particularly as much racket as modern tubas are capable of making) that it's pretty silly to hire a second tuba to play that piece - other than when required contractually. Particularly when two are playing, the decibel level needs to be lowered even more and the "mysterioso/ominouso" needs to be raised up roughly 200%.

The bassoons are there already (to add a reedy type of sound, and they are playing in their lowest register so it's particularly reedy).

[cjk]

Mostly, it's usually played too damn loud. It's not supposed to be obnoxious and out of place. Rather, it's supposed to be ominous and frightening.

There is so little for the second tuba to do (particularly as much racket as modern tubas are capable of making) that it's pretty silly to hire a second tuba to play that piece - other than when required contractually. Particularly when two are playing, the decibel level needs to be lowered even more and the "mysterioso/ominouso" needs to be raised up roughly 200%.

The bassoons are there already ( to add a reedy type of sound, and they are playing in their lowest register so it's particularly reedy).

I think it sounds better and more ominous "more reedy" rather than "less reedy".

[cjk]

I recall reading about maybe Gene Pokorny (?) playing this part down an octave or two on a F tuba perhaps to amplify the ominousness.
Is there a recording (commercial/youtube/whatever) of anyone doing that?

[bloke]

With the tuba player(x) not making a jackass out of themself(xx), the reedy bassoon sound comes through just fine.

[tclements]

I remember seeing a YouTube with the first part played on baritone (euphonium). It might have been an OLD recording of the Boston Symphony.

[Rick Denney]

What bassoon?

Rick “quoting a symphony player” Denney

[UncleBeer]

#1 is Berlioz' original instrumentation: one serpent and one ophicleide. The balance seems perfect with bassoons as well.

Atlanta's doing it with two French tubas next month.

[cjk]

#1 is Berlioz' original instrumentation: one serpent and one ophicleide. The balance seems perfect with bassoons as well.

Atlanta's doing it with two French tubas next month.

is UncleBeer coming to Atlanta to do that?

[bloke]

So - as one serpent and one ophicleide is perfect, why French tubas...?

I think quite a few of us have heard that recording on YouTube where one of each of those is used, and it really is quite good, particularly since the players play those instruments so well.

[UncleBeer]

So - as one serpent and one ophicleide is perfect, why French tubas...?

As hard as it is finding folks to play this on French tubas, imagine how much harder it is to find folks to play this well on serpent & ophicleide.

[bloke]

As posted earlier in the thread, one large bell throat euphonium gets the job done, but I'm glad for anyone to work in the so-called classical music industry - playing whatever they're playing, as long as that industry manages to last.

[Mary Ann]

Watching that video again has made me, again, want to at least get my hands on a serpent just to see how wildly weird it is to play.

[TheRumbling]

Hi! This is Mason Soria and Aaron Tindall playing the “Dies Irae” with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Conducted by Zubin Mehta.

[dp]

In college (San Jose State Symphony) I played the first part on my BBflat 184 & the guy playing 2nd had a CC 184. We were in more of an recital hall than a big concert hall, and with a full size orchestra w/6 dbl basses had to remind each other to take it easy be mindful of hearing the bassoons. It was fun, not overdone, just enough weird (conflict) with those two horns in different pitch side-by-side. I'd love to play Berlioz again before I die.

[graybach]

A comment from YouTube on the video posted in the first comment on this thread:

“ @xaitat • 1y ago
I've looked into it a bit more. First of all, Berlioz himself didn't like the serpent and later changed it to two Ophicleides. But also, he died in 1868, if he wanted to change to tuba he could have. But he didn't, while he still scored for tuba in other pieces. So it was definitely a purposeful choice.
I agree it doesn't sound great on two tubas.
Nowadays, finding serpent players is not simple and I totally see why an orchestra would want to give the part to their Tuba player. The first ophicleide part should be given to either an ophicleide or an euphonium though.”

Not 100% about everything he said, and I don’t feel like researching it right now, but I do know that I agree with the sentiment: To me, two tubas on this piece is just too heavy.

I love powerful tubas, but not in this piece. I loved hearing
Roger Bobo and Tommy Johnson on The Planets, for instance.
I loved Jens Bjørn-Larsen demonstrating a pedal tone in a masterclass at ITEC and, as Mark Nelson said, “I thought the roof was going to cave in, even though it still sounded good.“
But, especially after hearing the recording of Dies Irae with period instruments, I agree with Bloke that two tubas, especially the way they’re mostly played these days, is just too damn loud, and, I might add, too heavy even at the appropriate volume.

[Bob Kolada]

Bass trombone mp in a baritone sax? I read about someone sticking a tuba mp in a bass sax for the lols but couldn't find a video.

[Snake Charmer]

Bass trombone mp in a baritone sax? I read about someone sticking a tuba mp in a bass sax for the lols but couldn't find a video.

well, reverse inventing. The saxophone was invented by accident when a frustrated Adolphe Sax put the bass clarinet mouthpiece onto an ophicleide after his work on the bass clarinet wasn't too successful.
Late night inventing like for the microwave (radar station melting chocolate bars) or post-it stickers (intention was a super-glue)

[MikeS]

Watching that video again has made me, again, want to at least get my hands on a serpent just to see how wildly weird it is to play.

If you notice the instances where the fingering for two notes a half step apart is the same, that should give you a clue.

[Mary Ann]

Sort of like playing a scale on a dijeridoo? Or the low range on a rotary F tuba? You just "make it go."