Slide Lubricants

[hup_d_dup]

Pistons are prevented from departing the instrument by threaded caps. What keeps the slides from going their merry way?

Hup

Easy. Just take the ends of the two tubes and bend them ever so slightly towards each other...

I guess you are saying that Bloke's considerable amount of time, effort and expertise to make a slide work as smooth as a piston ("perfectly align slides - both parallel and coplanar") is pointless because in the end, you are going to cancel it by doing the same seat-of-the-pants adjustment that everyone else does.

Hup

[bloke]

I myself thought it was a pretty good joke.

[bort2.0]

Pistons are prevented from departing the instrument by threaded caps. What keeps the slides from going their merry way?

Hup

Easy. Just take the ends of the two tubes and bend them ever so slightly towards each other...

I guess you are saying that Bloke's considerable amount of time, effort and expertise to make a slide work as smooth as a piston ("perfectly align slides - both parallel and coplanar") is pointless because in the end, you are going to cancel it by doing the same seat-of-the-pants adjustment that everyone else does.

Hup

Joe knows me well enough to know it's a joke (and he just said so as well). My point is, I'd bet more than a few "bandroom repairs" would be done in such a manner, to just fix THAT problem, without considering 1) why it was a problem to begin with and 2) what the "fix" would mean for other things. I would never do that myself, of course. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen from some other people.

Most of the slides on my Besson 983 are delightful, and take the smallest amount of effort to move them. The main tuning slide is a little tight, and I'm not quite sure why the difference on that one. But if there's one to NOT move smooth as silk, I'd rather it be the one that I don't use as often (as if I used the other slides more, or even at all!).

[bloke]

What about Olive Oyl ?

E569FD69-7A81-4686-818F-AC9DD55587AF.jpeg (168.12 KiB) Viewed 11728 times

[ole_irgens]

The only real solution - to avoid grease migrating into valve oil (which is probably the cause of the overwhelming number of complaints about various brands of valve oil, whereas the oils themselves are likely innocent whipping boys) - is to perfectly align slides - both parallel and coplanar, and then fit the inside/outside slide tube pairs to each other as if they are pistons and casings. That way, valve oil can be used on slides as well as valves, so that migration doesn’t matter.
I’ve pointed this out quite a few times, but - when I point this out- it’s as if I typed it in white text, because no one wants to hear it.
I don’t put slide grease on my tubas.
Curiously, my instruments (all sorts of tubas made all over the world) are not sensitive to this, that, or the other brand of valve oil.

…btw, almost no factory instruments ($1000 - $40,000) are shipped with slide alignment as described above. It just takes too much time, as far as manufacturers are apparently concerned.

Thank you for this, sensei. I use valve oil on my slides and I feel like I am committing some kind of deadly sin when I do it. Will pass it on to my fellow tubaists (tubists?) on rehearsal today.

[bloke]

You'll occasionally see what appears to be dirt, but it will be tarnish that is scuffed off the articulating surfaces.
Every once in a while, you might just wipe the slides down with a paper towel prior to applying new oil.
Also, a clarinet swab might be handy for removing oil-suspended tarnish from inside the outside slide tubes...
...and (due to it being oily) you might store the clarinet swab inside a short piece of PVC pipe.
(The same thing happens with slide GREASE, but it's not as noticeable, because it's not so liquid.)

The only real solution - to avoid grease migrating into valve oil (which is probably the cause of the overwhelming number of complaints about various brands of valve oil, whereas the oils themselves are likely innocent whipping boys) - is to perfectly align slides - both parallel and coplanar, and then fit the inside/outside slide tube pairs to each other as if they are pistons and casings. That way, valve oil can be used on slides as well as valves, so that migration doesn’t matter.
I’ve pointed this out quite a few times, but - when I point this out- it’s as if I typed it in white text, because no one wants to hear it.
I don’t put slide grease on my tubas.
Curiously, my instruments (all sorts of tubas made all over the world) are not sensitive to this, that, or the other brand of valve oil.

…btw, almost no factory instruments ($1000 - $40,000) are shipped with slide alignment as described above. It just takes too much time, as far as manufacturers are apparently concerned.

Thank you for this, sensei. I use valve oil on my slides and I feel like I am committing some kind of deadly sin when I do it. Will pass it on to my fellow tubaists (tubists?) on rehearsal today.

[iiipopes]

I have several small containers of different brands of slide lube, of various weights and consistencies. I pick a thin one for #1 grab-and-go. I pick a little thicker one for the other slides. I still have a bottle of Roche-Thomas for valves, in addition to a couple of leftovers of various brands in the cases of a couple of horns I have purchased through the years. I have a can of 3-N-1 for rotor valve linkage. I have sewing machine oil for rotor bearings. In a pinch, I could use the fingerboard oil I have to dress my bass guitar fingerboards once a year during dry season on whatever may need it.

OK. I've used just about everything out there at one point or another over the years. I used to be a flag waver for Roche-Thomas valve oil, and I guess it is still my favorite. But now, except for my favorite hack of adding a couple of drops of pharmaceutical grade mineral oil to a small individual bottle of regular valve oil to seal worn souzy valves, my reaction to all the debate about lubricants:

Meh.

What matters more is what bloke said: true alignment of the slides, to which I will add keeping the horn clean and always applying fresh lubricant when necessary, especially for pistons valve oil at the beginning of a practice or rehearsal session, and of course before a performance.

[hup_d_dup]

Adding a stop rod (as I’m not for much for those shoestring things) actually takes less time than aligning a slide.

(I don’t have “loose fitting“ slides on my instruments, but rather “precise fitting“. I will admit that - when left in a really warm room - I’ve had a slide slip out once or twice over the years, but - nearly always - two pairs of tubes offer just enough friction to prevent that from occurring.
I don’t “fit” slides with sandpaper and buffing wheels.)

Next question: a while back (probably on the other forum) you recommended running water through the instrument with the valves down as a way to do a quick rinse. This is a good technique and I use it. However, how can you do this if your slides have very little friction? It doesn’t take much water pressure to pop my slides out and my slides surely have more friction than yours. It seems that the weight of a full slide, with no pressure at all, might be enough to cause a slide to slip out.

Hup

[bloke]

That occasionally happens, and I might find myself flopping my arm across (particularly) the upper slides, during a "hot flush".

Adding a stop rod (as I’m not for much for those shoestring things) actually takes less time than aligning a slide.

(I don’t have “loose fitting“ slides on my instruments, but rather “precise fitting“. I will admit that - when left in a really warm room - I’ve had a slide slip out once or twice over the years, but - nearly always - two pairs of tubes offer just enough friction to prevent that from occurring.
I don’t “fit” slides with sandpaper and buffing wheels.)

Next question: a while back (probably on the other forum) you recommended running water through the instrument with the valves down as a way to do a quick rinse. This is a good technique and I use it. However, how can you do this if your slides have very little friction? It doesn’t take much water pressure to pop my slides out and my slides surely have more friction than yours. It seems that the weight of a full slide, with no pressure at all, might be enough to cause a slide to slip out.

Hup

[acemorgan]

I just bought a very old tuba from a non-musician, who had the tuba serviced prior to selling. When she told me which shop she used, I sort of imploded. The shop in question is a shlock store with a sketchy repair section.

Anyway, I thoroughly cleaned the horn when I got it home. I eventually got the slides out, but it was a challenge. The grease (?), adhesive (?) they used on the slides had the thick, tacky consistency of a wax toilet flange. I began to wonder if I would need an industrial solvent. But hot water, dish soap, and a lot of elbow grease got it off. Plain valve oil sounds really good now.

[tubaing]

Just asking because I don't know- will you be prescribing grease or oil for my slides when you are finished?

The only real solution - to avoid grease migrating into valve oil (which is probably the cause of the overwhelming number of complaints about various brands of valve oil, whereas the oils themselves are likely innocent whipping boys) - is to perfectly align slides - both parallel and coplanar, and then fit the inside/outside slide tube pairs to each other as if they are pistons and casings. That way, valve oil can be used on slides as well as valves, so that migration doesn’t matter.

[bloke]

Some of your tubes were pretty darn banged up, so it will depend on how successful I am at getting rid of all the rough edges… and I don’t plan on sanding them to oblivion. I don’t mean at the ends of them, but I mean around them.
Your #1 slide is already pretty sweet, fwiw.

Your tuba was a “school tuba“ for several decades.

[Beyond16]

DIY for me. I became interested in how grease is made after finding some Walmart grease in my garage had separated over the years and leaked oil all over the place. Grease is made by adding thickener to oil. The best thickener I know of is fumed silica. It's very light and fluffy. It seems expensive, though a little goes a long way. I bought way more that I need. For the oil, I like silicone oil. It's available in a wide range of viscosities. The good thing about silicone is that it's completely odor-free, and in theory, absolutely harmless to humans. These ingredients can be bought on Ebay or Amazon. To make the grease, just add a little thickener to the oil and stir. The resulting grease is clear and non-staining.

[pjv]

I would love to know a repairman capable of aligning slides properly, but that's probably not gonna happen. Even if they accomplish this, once the outers get soldered back on we're back to square one.

For example, one of the two available repairman where I live applyed the slide-end-squeeze technique for one of my properly aligned slides that fell out too often.
Now you might say; "go to the second guy", but his shop messed up a valve job on 1913 Conn I had. Thrice over! Now that was about 10 years ago but it still hurts.

Even many new tubas coming straight off the press don't have properly aligned slides (like, it's less important so fXXk it).

So yeah, I'd go grease for slides cause it lasts longer. We all clean our tubas regularly anyway, RIGHT!?

Didn't Minnick used to make a "secret" slide goo made from car grease? At least that's how it smelled.

[DonO.]

When I was in high school, I used what everyone else used, Vaseline. When I got to college my instructor suggested anhydrous lanolin. I had to special order a jar from my local pharmacy and that jar lasted many years. For my new tuba I bought “Bach Synthetic Slide Gel”, because I thought this stuff was the latest and greatest! Wrong! It’s awful stuff. Very sticky and makes the slides hard to move. On the other hand, if you have slides that are loosey goosey, this is the stuff you want! My question is, what do folks here think about lanolin? As I remember, it worked very well.

[matt g]

I use lanolin, sparingly, on lower slides and slides I don’t need to occasionally tug on. It does work well and lasts a long time.

[jtuba]

@Beyond16

A few questions if you'll indulge me

So looking at your pic you prefer 5000 CST?
What is your ratio for mixture?
With what recipe you've settled on, what consistency results? Herman's tuning slide grease vs the ultra slide grease (super thick white stuff)?

Thanks

[bloke]

Wade,
As well as I’m sure you build your slides, you can probably lap in the upper ones with lava soap suds mixed with lamp oil until those slides float very nicely dry, and then use lamp oil on them - to lubricate them - once they’re clean.
The lava soap suds + lamp oil lapping compound will take about 2 to 3 times as long to lap satisfactorily with your preferred nickel silver tubes - compared to brass, but - with patience - will do very nicely… or perhaps you’ve already lapped them in, using some other compound.
The lower ones (which tend to just sit), you could sort of half-heartedly lap them in with the same materials, and just put a little lamp oil on them every few days to make sure they don’t seize…


Alternately, the lower slides could accept a nearly nonexistently-thin thickness of STP oil treatment, which you could keep from drying up completely (virtually forever) with a splash of lamp oil, now and then.

I don’t enjoy maintaining my instruments. I don’t enjoy cleaning my instruments. I do enough of that with other people’s instruments. I just want to be able to pick them up and play them. The tack outlined above almost completely defines that my instruments stay clean and stay lubricated. As you know, this is both very easy and very cheap.

[Beyond16]

@Beyond16

A few questions if you'll indulge me

So looking at your pic you prefer 5000 CST?
What is your ratio for mixture?
With what recipe you've settled on, what consistency results? Herman's tuning slide grease vs the ultra slide grease (super thick white stuff)?

Thanks

The 5000 CST is from my trumpet days. It's probably too thick for tuba unless you want super tight slides. I used it for a while, but my arms got sore from emptying the water. Even for trumpet, it's only suitable for the main tuning slide, and not the ones you move while playing. For the tuba tuning slides, the CST 1000 is a better choice. At my skill level, I don't move any slide while playing, so the CST 1000 is good for all the slides.

[Worth]

For simplicity I've settled on using Aquaphor for my tuning slides. It's readily available in any local store, functions well, can also be used on lips after playing or in wintertime, and has no discernable odor.
Active ingredient: Petrolatum (41%)
Inactive ingredients: Mineral Oil, Ceresin, Lanolin Alcohol, Panthenol, Glycerin, Bisabolol