Bore + bell of 5/4 Bb tubas?

[marccromme]

There is something that puzzles me: I am in the search for a decent, used 5/4 Bb tuba, preferably with 5 valves.

I had the chance to try a B&S B&S 3098/PT-6 CC tuba, and liked it much, this is pretty much what I'd like to find, just in BB.

The reason I'd prefer a BB tuba over a CC is that my other one is an MW Eb tuba, and I have a 4/4 B&S CC tuba ( 19-20-21 mm bore and 40 cm bell ) and another B&S 4/4 BB tuba (19 mm bore on all 4 valves and 42 cm bell).

While I have learned both fingerings, I think a BB complements the Eb better than the CC.

I really like the bore, bell and feel of the PT-6, it's probably due to 'conical' valve section 19-20-21 mm and the 48 cm bell. And of course, the taper inbetween ..

What really puzzles me is the very odd bore and bell sizes can find in used BB instruments: I can typically find on the used DK market

4/4 BB tubas like B&S , typically 19 mm bore (maybe the 4th valve 20 mm), often only 42 cm bells, sometimes 45 cm bells
4/4 BB tubas like the Cerveny CBB 681 with 20,2 mm bore and 40 cm bell (I had one of these, and the low range was not good ...)

6/4 Kaiser BB typically with bore 21 mm on all valves, an bells from 45 to 50 cm

The funny in-betweens with 19 mm bore and 48 cm bells, or 21 mm bore and 42 cm bells I also have seen.

But nothing resembling the nice conical valve section, throat and bell section of a PT-6. Why are BB tubas - at least those on the used market - having such odd sizes, and feels compared to the PT-6 ??

What make and model should I look for to find a 'true' 5/4 BB with nice punch and good response??

[Sousaswag]

MW Fafner

[marccromme]

The MW Fafner is more a 6/4 Kaiser size, right ?? 21 mm bore and 48 cm bell - pretty large throat ?? I think that is too large a beast for me. I tried a Miraphone Kaiser, and it was not for me.

The problem is of course that the different tuba brands use the sizes 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4 very different.

Most scizoprenic use is maybe Cerweny, having 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4 Kaiser tubas, all the same 21 mm bore and 50 cm bell. They do use the size designation for the height (!!!) of the tubas, not the bore.

And I never have seen a Fafner on the used market for a price that I can afford ...

[Grumpikins]

5/4 Bb is an oddity. Your options in Bb will be 4/4 or 6/4. However, these size designations really vary a lot. You can find a large 4/4 or a small 6/4. There are others here that could give you more info.

I agree that Bb and eb work well together. I have spent the last couple years practicing switching keys and have found that thinking about notes in terms of names rather than fingerings for those notes to work better. Memorize lingering patterns and use them relational to the notes you are playing. I occasionally have a flub, especially in quick passages, but mostly no problems. Exercising my brain in this way has helped greatly and I am currently filling in on trumpet and cornet with the same approach successfully. So I guess I'm saying that if you really like the pt 6, then go for it and train yourself switching back and forth. It will get easier.

I also want to add that i found the blazhevich etudes worked really well as practice material for switching key instruments. I think the more rhythmic nature of them rather than the lyrical nature of bordogni is the reason.

[bort2.0]

Rudy 5/4 BBb

Probably more 6/4 sized. Not really a Kaiser. A heck of a tuba.

[Bob Kolada]

I read somewhere the MW25 is a popular choice in Germany for guys who can't justify a Fafner or the like. I played with a guy with one for a while in brass band (like 20 years ago, saw them play last year) and he's got a big, fantastic sound. There's also the B&S 55 but I don't have any experience with that one and both are 4 valve horns.

If you can stretch to a 4/4+ the Miraphone rotary 191 and piston 1291 are wonderful horns and can be had with 5 valves in both models. Miraphone calls them "5/4 size compact", the 191 is a straight .835 bore.