5v vintage Alexander 163 CC, $5,500 (Houston, TX/FB)

[arpthark]

https://www.facebook.com/share/1FYYJDAaRC/



I think this is one that @bloke recently worked on.

[bloke]

I did what I could for it for a previous owner without bankrupting them. I really don't like patching things, but that patch was pretty much unavoidable.

It's solid and plays like an Alex C tuba.
Lots of people like them.
Some people are nuts about them.
I'm willing to repair them.
Unless it's been whacked since I replaced it, the top bow has a pretty new nickel bow cap, and I'm thinking I got the oem bottom bow cap looking pretty good.

[arpthark]

The patch looks good.

[bloke]

The thing that I'm uncomfortable with is
"bloke worked on this instrument, so it's really great"
(or the opposite of that statement).

The fact that people seem to bring into their sales pitch the person who repaired an instrument when getting rid of it is the thing that I'm uncomfortable with. They don't usually do that with cars or houses.
When I do repairs, I'm trying to do as much as I can that benefits an instrument the most for the amount of money the owner has available.
Sometimes (often) it's only a few hundred dollars.
A few hundred dollars these days only buys a handful of my hours, so I have to pick and choose carefully how I spend a customer's money. Money isn't worth anything anymore. We never (maybe about as often as our grandparents did, which was maybe once every year or so at the most) go out to restaurants, because it's just about impossible to get out of a good one (food drink tax tip) without spending over $100, and maybe $200. We've decided that we don't need to spend an hour and a half driving to and from a restaurant and spend money that we earned getting filthy dirty just to eat a meal.
The only way that a $10,000 repair can make any tuba play better in tune (general statement here, nothing to do with this ad) is to jack that one up and run a more in-tune-playing one underneath it. Some people think that soldering chunks of metal to their instruments will fix the tuning, some people believe that putting a piece of wood in their pocket will fix intonation problems, and some people believe that magic mouthpieces or magic mouth pipes will do that.
Whatever.

All of that said, I do a lot of customer work, but I don't make unrealistic promises. They ask me if it will do this or that, and I remind them that I'm a mechanic, not an acoustician, and that I'm not replacing any of the tapered portions of their instruments. (Every once in awhile, a replacement mouth pipe tube will slightly alter intonation characteristics, but who knows if for the better or worse if it does alter it? I've sort of found that keeping them small on the front end is often a good idea, but whatever on mouth pipes. Again - even though I have noticed things and made some observations over the decades, I'm a mechanic.)

Some repair people turn their noses up at institutional repairs, but we gladly do a lot of school repairs. Because I'm pretty quick at all the types of repairs I do, I tend to do more cosmetic repairs on school instruments than a lot of people seem to do. All that said, even though school customers don't pay for 30 or 45 days. At least they don't have unrealistic expectations, they aren't sentimentally attached to instruments which probably should be retired, and frankly they don't cringe when I quote prices (and I don't gouge them - no more than would ever consider abusing an individual customer. When any of us considered gouging the government, all we are doing is stealing from each other, and that's pretty stupid.). Either they authorize the repair or they don't.

I made several general statements in this response.

>> The Alexander tuba (assuming it's in the same condition it was in when it left here handed off to a previous owner) is mechanically sound and structurally sound. None of these comments have anything to do with that individual tuba, but only have to do with my name being brought up as having repaired an instrument that's for sale. I fix broken, worn, and bent stuff. I'm not a magician.

[tubatodd]

@bloke how did you decide to put the patch on the outside vs the inside of the bell? My Rudi has a small patch and in my case it was installed/reinstalled on the inside of the bell. Is it dealer's choice, best practice or "depends?"

[bloke]

@bloke how did you decide to put the patch on the outside vs the inside of the bell? My Rudi has a small patch and in my case it was installed/reinstalled on the inside of the bell. Is it dealer's choice, best practice or "depends?"

I believe it had to do with the kranz.
I don't remember whether a small portion of the cracked area was on top of the kranz or not, but realize that the kranz itself can act as a patch. Being able to fit it to the edge of the kranz likely defined a smaller patch. I like smaller.

[Porky]

I’m the current owner of this Alexander 163 CC.

I wanted to clarify a few things, as this thread seems to have gone considerably further than the original post warranted.

First, the instrument is in excellent playing condition, mechanically sound, and, in my opinion, an above-average example of a vintage Alexander 163. I’ve owned and played enough tubas to evaluate an instrument on its own merits.

Yes, Bloke performed work on the instrument for a previous owner. There are a couple of patches, and the repair work is perfectly serviceable. Nobody here claimed the work was magical, that his involvement somehow transformed the instrument, or that his name alone makes it worth purchasing.

In fact, the original poster simply mentioned that Bloke had worked on the horn. That was the extent of it.

I’m not entirely sure why that warranted several lengthy paragraphs about repair budgets, restaurants, acoustics, or people supposedly using repair technicians’ names as sales pitches. None of those subjects have anything to do with the actual condition or quality of this particular Alexander.

For what it’s worth, Bloke himself has confirmed that the instrument was mechanically and structurally sound when it left his shop, and I can confirm that it remains in excellent working condition today.

This is a nearly 75-year-old Alexander, not a brand-new instrument, and its condition should be evaluated accordingly. The patches are not being concealed, and the horn is being represented accurately.

Ultimately, the instrument should be judged by how it plays, its mechanical condition, and its overall quality not by who happened to work on it at some point in its history.

I’m happy to answer any legitimate questions from prospective buyers or arrange for a serious buyer to evaluate the horn personally.

[bort2.0]

It's a beautiful horn, and I bet it sounds awesome.

The seller is also a really nice guy, I met him about 8-10 years ago when he bought a horn from me. Excellent player, knows his stuff.

And really, tell me another handmade German made 5-valve CC tuba for this price

[arpthark]

I didn't mean to cause a ruckus. I just recognized the tuba from this thread from last year: viewtopic.php?t=11226

Porky is a great guy. I am sure this tuba is exactly as represented.

[bloke]

My response was (as my name was mentioned) probably a reaction to being called on the telephone by people in the past asking how some instrument plays, when all I probably had done to some "instrument X" was to smooth out some creases, resolder some braces, and quiet the valves.
Having seen how little the asking price of this particular is...
These days - as far as NEW instruments are concerned - this particular tuba's asking price is barely above the pricing of entry-level Asian instruments in the new market, whereas the price of this particular tuba - certainly for Alexander - seems like a no-brainer. If it's still in the same condition it was when it left here, it's all straight and solid.
-------------------------
I also recently showed a picture or two in another thread of a decades-old "Piggy" tuba to which I had done some alterations a long time ago and - suddenly - it's back in my workroom. I may or may not end up being asked to sell that instrument. (Without running up a big fat bill to the owner, I'm probably only a workday away from having that one in "good selling condition" (very much ready to play, but not "blue printed and balanced"). I'm not interested in buying it, and I've never owned one of these. That doesn't mean that there aren't a whole bunch of people who REALLY like these, and would love to own and play this instrument, as obviously there.are - SAME AS WITH ALEXANDER.

There are countless fans of Alex, Cerveny, Rudy (and I've owned all three sizes and used all three sizes of Rudy C tubas, understand the allure, but I'm not interested in revisiting any of those personally), and even ol' tried-and-true Miraphone - a whole bunch of their models are very accessible as far as playing them - but there just aren't that many of them that I would consider buying for myself. What I'm trying to say is that my personal list of instruments I'd consider owning is ridiculously (most people would label "absurdly") short, so I just don't know how much help I can be to other people in advising them on the telephone.

Tubas have become pretty expensive to ship and it's always a risk.
Drive to that Alexander tuba, play it, experience it, and make a purchase decision based on first-hand experience - and not from what I or any other freak jury member might say.

[Timtamtuba]

The thing that I'm uncomfortable with is
"bloke worked on this instrument, so it's really great"
(or the opposite of that statement).

The fact that people seem to bring into their sales pitch the person who repaired an instrument when getting rid of it is the thing that I'm uncomfortable with. They don't usually do that with cars or houses.
When I do repairs, I'm trying to do as much as I can that benefits an instrument the most for the amount of money the owner has available.
Sometimes (often) it's only a few hundred dollars.
A few hundred dollars these days only buys a handful of my hours, so I have to pick and choose carefully how I spend a customer's money. Money isn't worth anything anymore. We never (maybe about as often as our grandparents did, which was maybe once every year or so at the most) go out to restaurants, because it's just about impossible to get out of a good one (food drink tax tip) without spending over $100, and maybe $200. We've decided that we don't need to spend an hour and a half driving to and from a restaurant and spend money that we earned getting filthy dirty just to eat a meal.
The only way that a $10,000 repair can make any tuba play better in tune (general statement here, nothing to do with this ad) is to jack that one up and run a more in-tune-playing one underneath it. Some people think that soldering chunks of metal to their instruments will fix the tuning, some people believe that putting a piece of wood in their pocket will fix intonation problems, and some people believe that magic mouthpieces or magic mouth pipes will do that.
Whatever.

All of that said, I do a lot of customer work, but I don't make unrealistic promises. They ask me if it will do this or that, and I remind them that I'm a mechanic, not an acoustician, and that I'm not replacing any of the tapered portions of their instruments. (Every once in awhile, a replacement mouth pipe tube will slightly alter intonation characteristics, but who knows if for the better or worse if it does alter it? I've sort of found that keeping them small on the front end is often a good idea, but whatever on mouth pipes. Again - even though I have noticed things and made some observations over the decades, I'm a mechanic.)

Some repair people turn their noses up at institutional repairs, but we gladly do a lot of school repairs. Because I'm pretty quick at all the types of repairs I do, I tend to do more cosmetic repairs on school instruments than a lot of people seem to do. All that said, even though school customers don't pay for 30 or 45 days. At least they don't have unrealistic expectations, they aren't sentimentally attached to instruments which probably should be retired, and frankly they don't cringe when I quote prices (and I don't gouge them - no more than would ever consider abusing an individual customer. When any of us considered gouging the government, all we are doing is stealing from each other, and that's pretty stupid.). Either they authorize the repair or they don't.

I made several general statements in this response.

>> The Alexander tuba (assuming it's in the same condition it was in when it left here handed off to a previous owner) is mechanically sound and structurally sound. None of these comments have anything to do with that individual tuba, but only have to do with my name being brought up as having repaired an instrument that's for sale. I fix broken, worn, and bent stuff. I'm not a magician.

I think in general, when someone who's in the know hears that you or Lee or Dan ect. worked on something they feel confident that the work was done right and that the horn itself was good enough to warrant paying for it to be repaired. In my university days that was sorta how my studio felt at least. There are a lot of people who call themselves repair techs who will solder together instruments and roll out dents crudely who may not know what they are doing and thats where the "premium" of being worked on by someone with a good reputation comes from .

[bloke]

1979:

I MYSELF traded a Miraphone 186 for a four valve Alex C a long time ago. All it needed was to have some dents taken out and I handed it off to two local repair guys.

When I got it back, the rotors were all ruined. They decided to buff the hell out of the rotary bodies on a buffing machine and - not only that - they rigged up some kind of polishing thing on a drill and put a mirror finish on the inside of all the valve casings. I got it back from them with ridiculous blow by on all four rotors.
(I later discovered that they were just a couple of drunks... really.)

Everyone messes up every once in awhile, but that was just Three (2) Stooges level $h!t.

There was also a big 3 inch by 6 inch nickel patch on the front of the large side of the top bow where that metal wasn't cracked or anything when I handed it off to them.

Finally, I asked them to convert the mouth pipe to receive a standard shank mouthpiece... so they cut off a chunk of a King sousaphone bit and jammed it in there.

Not only this, but they charged me $1,000 in late1970s money and they spent a really long time ruining it.

Like I said, I'm just a mechanic. If rotors are already ruined like those guys did to my rotors, about all I can do is put complete new rotor assemblies on an instrument. I'm not even sure these rotor rebuilder people could have done those much good, and if somebody buffs the crap out of a upper bow so they have to put a giant patch on it, about all I can do is order a new upper bow from the manufacturer.

I believe that - once the patch that I put on that for-sale tuba's bell tarnishes down like the rest of the tuba, it won't be very noticeable, visually. (I don't know what a brand new bell would cost for an Alexander C tuba, but my experience is that they charge pretty fancy prices even for little bitty stuff, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if their bells or something like 3500 bucks or something like that...??)

After those two stooges ruined that Alex, someone (in the condition it was in) wanted to trade it for a Miraphone, so I guess I got lucky, and ended up getting a Miraphone back (other than the thousand bucks I paid to have the Alex ruined)


Had I received that tuba back from those two guys (back in 1979) in the condition that this currently for-sale Alex instrument is in, I would have been REALLY happy (vs. shocked and disappointed). Some of you may not believe the stuff I described above, but every bit of it is true.