How the guard/brace impacts resonance - MW2165

[btcampbellTUBA]

Hi, I recently purchased a meinl weston 2165, and the original owner (it had two before me, this is the original purchaser of the horn in the early 2000s) had a number of modifications done, one of which being removing the silver guards/braces from the bottom and side bows. Apparently, this was done to increase resonance, but the concept of having a tuba that costs double what my car is worth, be played and used with NO protection on its most dentable parts, makes me nervous at the very least. Although, if there is truly a noticeable impact, I’m fine with being extra cautious. My question is; does it really improve resonance (I don’t necessarily have another 2165 just laying around to compare it to), or is it one of those things that only true enthusiasts really care about, or notice, akin to stripping lacquer off the bell for a sound improvement.

Thanks!

[arpthark]

You are going to get a dozen different answers to your question. The one observation I will make is that a tuba might feel more "resonant" in a player's hands when some of these modifications are made which amount to no perceivable difference in the hall/out from under the bell.

The 2165 is already a very large, heavy tuba. Removing a few ounces (maybe a pound, max?) of brass strips soldered to the outside of the bottom bow, not impacting the vibrating column of air inside the instrument, is probably not going to matter much, IMO.

Now, things inside the instrument, like "tone rings" soldered inside the bell, make a more measurable difference IMO. That is another common mod to the 2165 and I think came stock with the 2265 version of that horn. My current 5/4 Rudi Meinl, comparable in size to the 2165 (maybe a little smaller) has one of those rings inside the bell and I think it helps center/focus the sound a bit more compared to the stock 5/4 Rudis I have played.

[Sousaswag]

Hang on. Are we talking about just the guard wire, or the WHOLE guard cap?

Neither would impact resonance or hall presence in an audible way, imo.

What removing the whole guard will do is make that tuba extremely easy to dent. I’d try and track those down, or ask somebody to make new ones (no easy task either way).

The things that make a difference with a 2165 are the things Alan Baer changed to make it a 6450.

[arpthark]

Hang on. Are we talking about just the guard wire, or the WHOLE guard cap?

That's a good point. I read it as the guard wire, but rereading it, could be the cap. I definitely wouldn't want a tuba with no guard caps.

[btcampbellTUBA]

Yep, the whole guard cap. Nothing but smooth raw brass on the bottom bow and side.

[bloke]

That's a pretty expensive part to not receive with the instrument (both to buy and to pay to have installed).

[Sousaswag]

Wow. Do you know who the first owner was? Maybe reach out and see if they’ve still got those parts. You could have them made, but would certainly be spending a lot.

MW will probably make them for you, but expect a long wait, lots of money, and tariff charges.

See my thread about my “6465” if you want to read about my experiences and opinions with trying to make a 2165 easier to play.

[bloke]

I'm not going to go look unless someone encourages me to, but I might have one of those.

I might totally be remembering something that never occurred, but I'm thinking I bought one to put on a Holton 345, and then I decided to repair the original.

[btcampbellTUBA]

@Sousaswag yes, i do know who the original owner was. He owned it for ~15 years, and then sold it to the guy i bought it from, who had it up until he sold it to me recently. Im debating contacting him, but I 1: doubt he has them still after all these years, and 2: be able to ship it to me from where he is without me paying a TON of money (although getting any form of guards would be expensive).

@bloke if you ever happen to remember if you actually HAVE those or not, i'd love to know how you sourced them (if they're from an other 2165, or if you got them fabricated stand-alone).

The plan right now is to look around for the general amount it would be to get some guards and put them on, but right now, i have a couple other things that I'd like to spend money on first for the horn that outweigh that (it needs a slide limiter, and i'd like to replace the little circle/handle at the top of the 2nd valve slide puller with a larger circle handle).

[bloke]

I believe I saw it hanging...large/nickel-brass
I can check it on a beat up Holton 345. It will NOT fit that very will, but (even though a poor fit on a 6/4 Holton) it will tell me that it is a 2165 bottom bow CAP, because it would be a ROUGH/APPROXIMATE fit.

I don't know where you live, but - if a day trip from here - I could quote you on selling it, installing it, and (if some dents in the bottom bow) remove those prior to installing this thing (all while you're here).

We'll leave it at this, until/if you're ever interested in pursuing this.

[Sousaswag]

I think it’s probably worth contacting him and asking. No harm. Otherwise, Joe’s offer is probably your best option to get SOMETHING on that tuba.

[PlayTheTuba]

What about buying some pool noodles as a temporary guards? Or, you could make those leather or p-leather wraps, but that is more time consuming.