New B&S International BBb: model 796

[arpthark]

Just saw that there is now a B&S 796, made in China similar to the 795.

The 796 seems to be based on the generally well-regarded PT-2/VMI 3301 BBb... leadpipe is a little bit different. 4/4 sized BBb.

Baltimore Brass has one for sale:

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/s ... 633528.htm



Here's the B&S webpage:

https://eu.b-and-s.com/bs_FR_en/bbb-tub ... 6-1-0.html

[Sousaswag]

Cool! Those VMI’s were always really nice players and relatively cheap used. Looks like they kept the looped leadpipe but made it longer. And put it in a better spot so water doesn’t get all over your pants when you empty it

[bloke]

Those I believe are made in the Wisemann factory.

I wonder when they're going to bring back the Wisemann 900 (except with some nickel brass parts) as - perhaps - the "2198'.

The problem with the Wiseman 900 was that they consistently played better than the instrument they copied - which was made in Germany (PT6P).

[PlayTheTuba]

Cool! Good sir Warren Kus mentioned to me it was in the works!!!!

Although, the spot that tuning slide occupies for the 796 was a nice area to hold the 3301 (pt2p) tuba when your walking with it.

The lead-pipe and second valve tubing on the 4097 CC (pt20) gets in the way...

[arpthark]

It would have been neat if they made the secondary tuning slide in the leadpipe adjustable while playing.

[arpthark]

Cool! Good sir Warren Kus mentioned to me it was in the works!!!!

Although, the spot that tuning slide occupies for the 796 was a nice area to hold the 3301 (pt2p) tuba when your walking with it.

The lead-pipe and second valve tubing on the 4097 CC (pt20) gets in the way...

I owned a PT-20P (4097) CC.

I think the model pictured (this new 796 and also the VMI 3301/PT-2) is interesting because, based on the really long leadpipe with the additional tuning slide and long main tuning slide, it's clear this model started out designed as a CC (4097/PT-20P) and was then elongated to become a BBb, which is the opposite of what usually happens in the design of some tubas (BBbs with factory chop jobs to become CC: looking at you, Alex 163...).

It's also interesting because, not only what I mentioned above, but it can be furthered argued this factory-extendo-job resulted in a horn that was actually more successful than the original model. The PT-20P had some definite intonation quirks that were manageable, but drove young arpthark bonkers, poring over his tuning tendency chart and a tuner, trying to figure them out (i.e., asking a 20 year old kid: is it you, or the tuba?)

[Sousaswag]

Cool! Good sir Warren Kus mentioned to me it was in the works!!!!

Although, the spot that tuning slide occupies for the 796 was a nice area to hold the 3301 (pt2p) tuba when your walking with it.

The lead-pipe and second valve tubing on the 4097 CC (pt20) gets in the way...

I owned a PT-20P (4097) CC.

I think the model pictured (this new 796 and also the VMI 3301/PT-2) is interesting because, based on the really long leadpipe with the additional tuning slide and long main tuning slide, it's clear this model started out designed as a CC (4097/PT-20P) and was then elongated to become a BBb, which is the opposite of what usually happens in the design of some tubas (BBbs with factory chop jobs to become CC: looking at you, Alex 163...).

It's also interesting because, not only what I mentioned above, but it can be furthered argued this factory-extendo-job resulted in a horn that was actually more successful than the original model. The PT-20P had some definite intonation quirks that were manageable, but drove young arpthark bonkers, poring over his tuning tendency chart and a tuner, trying to figure them out (i.e., asking a 20 year old kid: is it you, or the tuba?)

It’s definitely the tuba!!

I’ve never loved either 20 or 20p… but the 3301/3302 are outstanding. Weird how that works.

[catgrowlB]

These B&S 'International' tubas look very nice -- I know the 795 4/4 Nirschl copy has been out for years now. I really liked the VMI (B&S) 3301/3302 tubas when they came out back in the late 1990s. I still have the old WWBW catalogs from back then. I'm sure this new B&S 796 is a fine tuba

From what I have read and researched, these tubas are not made in the Wisemann facility -- they are made in B&S' own China facility. Very similar to what Yamaha does with their brass instrument facilities

[bloke]

I have never been to China (therefore my knowledge is second hand just as yours), but someone I know that goes there multiple times a year on buying, quality control, design change, and price negotiating trips continues to assure me that the Buffet Chinese tubas, euphoniums, trombones, etc. are made by Wisemann.
Further, they remark that - even though the ones that they buy for their company are not made in that factory, that the Wisemann factor is doing a very good job (quality wise) for Buffet.

Thinking about the (relatively compared to Yamaha) low volume of production of Buffet Chinese instruments, it's hard to imagine that Buffet has their own dedicated factory in China, but it is believable to me that Wisemann has the capacity to serve Buffet. I also tend to believe the person - who has told me this over and over, and who goes there regularly.

All of that said, I really doesn't matter. That stuff is made well and people are buying it. I'm not interested in buying any of it.

[arpthark]

I thought the Wisemann factory was bought out by Buffet-Crampon, so they’re one in the same? And some of the workers from there went on to found ZO?

[catgrowlB]

It's kinda confusing....
This post says B&S (Buffet-Crampon) bought the old Wisemann factory: https://forum.dwerden.com/forum/euphoni ... euphoniums

This one says Wisemann brass were made by DY Music, Beijing: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?stor ... 7501697821

And Tuba Exchange copied the statement from Buffet-Crampon talking about their company-owned facility in China: https://www.tubaexchange.com/products/b ... -4-cc-tuba

There was another site that said B&S (Buffet-Crampon) bought the Wisemann facility right after they (Wisemann) shuttered, but someone else can find that. If that is the case, Wisemann no longer exists because it is now a B&S facility.

Who cares, as long as they are good tubas

[bloke]

So it's the same place...??

I wonder if anyone but the Chinese government and it's elites really "owns" anything in China.
-----------------
totally off topic, so honestly I don't know why I'm posting it here, but it's not worth its own thread:

I recently bought a couple hundred bucks stuff from Miraphone.
By the time I paid shipping and tariff, I paid the same amount to get it here.

[Lee Stofer]

There is, and always has been murky intrigue in the lower-priced-instruments manufacturing and marketing. . . . .