A Little Love for the Contrabass Trombone

[MikeS]

Phil Teele was a player. Enjoy.

[iiipopes]

Don't forget to add to this the dinosaur: the G bass trombone as made by Boosey & Co. (before the merger) about a century ago for British Brass Bands.

[MikeS]

Don't forget to add to this the dinosaur: the G bass trombone as made by Boosey & Co. (before the merger) about a century ago for British Brass Bands.

Speaking of the Brits, the Salvation Army made a really unique contrabass trombone. It had two slides connected with a string mechanism. When you push the slide forward the rear-facing slide would extend the same length behind you. Why it never caught on remains a mystery.

[Wilco]

Sure about contra? Sounds like basstrombone…

[MikeS]

Sure about contra? Sounds like basstrombone…

I have the album and the liner notes say contrabass. Here is a poorly shot video where he is definitely playing the big horn. This tune is more pedal centric but I hear the same sound quality when he gets out of the sub-sub-basement. I like this quote from him, “Being a studio player is like being a matador; you never know when you will be gored.”

[OhTubaGuy]

If Bb contrabass trombones were a little more common, it would be fun to pick one up. My use case is almost non-existent so there isn’t a case to spend real money on one.

But I didn’t hate it when I had 10 minutes to fart around on a pretty nice one.

[Kevbach33]

If Bb contrabass trombones were a little more common, it would be fun to pick one up. My use case is almost non-existent so there isn’t a case to spend real money on one.

But I didn’t hate it when I had 10 minutes to fart around on a pretty nice one.

On the slide instrument chat, there's someone building a custom BBb contrabass bone using some extremely large dimensions: 17.5-18.5 mm (.689-.728") slide bore, 19.6 mm (.772") valves, and a euphonium bell. The client who commissioned it will be using a true tuba mouthpiece on the finished product.

The idea is that the current contrabass trombones (in both F and especially BBb) aren't big enough to compensate for the growth of the current Bb bass trombone (and the large tenors above it). This instrument, according to the client, will provide a better foundation for the modern day trombone section (as, let's face it, BBb contras haven't really changed much since Conn built their instruments in the early 1900's).

To put it another way, maybe all contras would be more common if they were just proportioned better, akin to their cimbasso equivalents, for the modern player.

My gears are now spinning: an appropriate F contrabass (which I'd rather call a "great bass") could have the general specs of the Shires Q instruments (15 mm (.590") slide and 16.5-17 mm (.649-.669") valves) or a bit larger (I'd say 16mm (.629") slide and 17.5-18mm (.689-.709") valves), but with a British baritone horn-sized (minimum, up to the size of a King marching baritone, say) bell section after the valves. Either contrabass trombone or proper F tuba mouthpieces could be used for this application.

If I had a use case that wasn't just the Grinch, and had the funds, I might commission one (with a long slide) for myself.

[Bob Kolada]

I owned a Kanstul F/C/Db contra for about a year but never played it that much. I think I only played it in a group once, the CTA- Chicago Trombone Authority. Fantastic group with a great email list (got a few gigs out of that), getting out to rehearsal was difficult so I didn't play with them regularly. I also only brought it to my Army reserve band's drill weekend once (same car issue, yes I bought a contrabass trombone instead of a car) and the two guys who played bass trombone, one who went to grad school for it, weren't there. Meltingface.img

As for the horn- it played well, back heavy and a wide slide meant it was very comfortable to hold. The slide was, iirc, .562/594 and the valves .620. I thought it was a little funky blowing which I would attribute to the big difference in the slide bore. It sounded a little blah in our condo but fantastic in the church the CTA rehearsed in. It did have a slow 2nd valve linkage, that was frustrating. Intonation was different than Bb trombones- bottom line G on the C valve was all the way in (as compared to the corresponding C on a Bb/F trombone being out a bit) and middle C was pretty sharp, 1.5-2" I think. It could do a safe, flat 6th position but didn't have a 7th, many of these things don't. It was also oddly slightly bent more than normal trombones and had a very long receiver. I think it was a hodge podge of designs, basically a German style contra with the American valve tuning. The Haag and Latzsch contras look better proportioned, like oversized bass trombones. I have the impression the Haags have a 7th position but that's not that important here save that silly glissando and maybe a few alternates you don't really need (double valve and slide low Bb on bass is a nice alternate).

I bought it from a lady in Texas who taught trombone and flying lessons, it arrived with a crunched bell. We didn't have any luck with UPS, I eventually found a guy who worked for Greenhoe who was looking to borrow one and offered to do some repair work in exchange. He picked it up, fixed it and then played it, I think he had it a month or so. I sold it during a purge to a guy who was going to study with, iirc, Brandt Attema on a Fulbright scholarship. I also sold my Olds marching trombone, Chinese bass trumpet, contrabass trumpet and 4 front valve Conn Giant Eb. Horn Guys had a Kanstul contra listed several months ago, I think this was it.

Regarding oversized contras, a gentleman I played with in the CTA and also briefly for in college played in the Chicago Lyric and owned Charlie Daellenbach's Thein contra. I never saw it but he told me he had it extended to Eb to better match the bass trombonist he sat next to, I think I read that guy had a marching baritone bell on his bass trombone.
There's a guy in England who had a double slide Thein Eb/Bb contra built, that's an interesting concept. Robb Stewart made a few Eb contras, Conn also made at least one in addition to their Bb. When I was in the market for a contra I emailed Doug Yeo about his Bb Conn and he was like, what no (you may rightfully laugh but that's how I got the contrabass trumpet!).
https://www.robbstewart.com/contrabass-trombones-eb


The guy that built my little Eb cimbasso built a double slide Bb/F/ascending C contra for his buddy. Really a fantastic idea, you lose the cranky C and B below the staff, get an easy button pedal C and B, and you can play just about everything between 1 and 4. I saw his friend play it but did not play it myself. I played a new out of the box from Germany Miraphone Bb contra, it was a fine horn with horrible ergonomics. That bell stay that looks like you can hold it like a straight trombone? Nope, sorry, we can't let you do that. They also don't really have a usable 7th position, you can get close but that double slide starts feeling very sketchy.

[Bob Kolada]

Regarding Phil Teele, I think that's an opera model Alexander contra. Here's some fun noises from him on bass, as well as some tubax finger wiggling.

[jose the tuba player]

If Bb contrabass trombones were a little more common, it would be fun to pick one up. My use case is almost non-existent so there isn’t a case to spend real money on one.

But I didn’t hate it when I had 10 minutes to fart around on a pretty nice one.

On the slide instrument chat, there's someone building a custom BBb contrabass bone using some extremely large dimensions: 17.5-18.5 mm (.689-.728") slide bore, 19.6 mm (.772") valves, and a euphonium bell. The client who commissioned it will be using a true tuba mouthpiece on the finished product.

The idea is that the current contrabass trombones (in both F and especially BBb) aren't big enough to compensate for the growth of the current Bb bass trombone (and the large tenors above it). This instrument, according to the client, will provide a better foundation for the modern day trombone section (as, let's face it, BBb contras haven't really changed much since Conn built their instruments in the early 1900's).

To put it another way, maybe all contras would be more common if they were just proportioned better, akin to their cimbasso equivalents, for the modern player.

My gears are now spinning: an appropriate F contrabass (which I'd rather call a "great bass") could have the general specs of the Shires Q instruments (15 mm (.590") slide and 16.5-17 mm (.649-.669") valves) or a bit larger (I'd say 16mm (.629") slide and 17.5-18mm (.689-.709") valves), but with a British baritone horn-sized (minimum, up to the size of a King marching baritone, say) bell section after the valves. Either contrabass trombone or proper F tuba mouthpieces could be used for this application.

If I had a use case that wasn't just the Grinch, and had the funds, I might commission one (with a long slide) for myself.

I'm assuming this is the one that Brad close is currently building? Id be curious what the cost is for such a beast.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=ZbWKwL

[Kevbach33]

I'm assuming this is the one that Brad close is currently building? Id be curious what the cost is for such a beast.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=ZbWKwL

"If you have to ask..."

Yes, that's the one. I'm excited to see what this Big A$$ Bone (BAB) will end up looking like.

[TubaPadawan]

As for more Contrabass trombone love, David Bragunier owned one (I do not known the brand) and he used it on Pines of Rome because the original Respeghi Score calls for 4 Trombones, even though the 4th trombone is all in the Tuba low and mid range up to a B flat above the staff. He told me this horn had two dynamic levels: pp and fff Then horn was a beast of raw Brass and the Pines of the Appian way never sounded better.

[Schlitzz]

There’s several reasons why some instruments are more popular than a viola.

There was a guy making baritone trombones. How did that work out?

I doubt this one off horn will be anything more than a unicorn.

Is it going to blend well?

The violas are going to hate it.

If one plays it for 20 hrs per week, would it qualify as an effective physical therapy for ED?