souped up Cerveny "Piggy" C

[bloke]

I'm not posting this in "for sale", because its owner has NOT 100% decided to sell it. (For now, I'm the repair guy, and NOT the owner.) Also... What if (??) the owner does want to sell it and then tells me that they're wanting to get "a zillion-billion dollars" for it...

I'm not posting it in "repairs", because I'm not doing any more mods to this, but just removing some small dents, cleaning it up, and quieting it up.

I added the fifth valve and the main tuning slide thingamajig probably at least thirty years ago (maybe 35 or 40...??)

The Altieri bag is in pretty good shape. I don't know if the owner still has the lid to it. I've noticed that a lot of people don't bother with those lids. I did not peruse the interior quilted red liner, but I didn't notice any tears when I was getting the tuba out of the bag.

I am NOT at all seeking nor hoping for any "first dibs" private messages, and I really don't want to keep track of any such messages.
That said, I'm offering a heads up for a possibly available (??) instrument in the near future.

Mostly, I'm just sort of chuckling it some work that I did a long time ago, and had forgotten about. Yes, those are Miraphone parts.

I suspect that the main tuning slide whatchamacallit could be improved with one of those Reynolds tuba first valve slide (self-centering, but never perfectly, seemingly) thingamajigs, but I'm not putting one on there and I'm not offering to put one on there later.

What remains of the lacquer very much appears to be original.

For now, just consider this post to be some interesting pictures.

[ghmerrill]

.

[ghmerrill]

Is that handle actually a spark plug wrench that you welded a long rod on and installed for dynamic main tuning slide adjustment? That's a great feature. Much more effective than using the 1st valve slide (and venting that valve -- as I had done on the Cerveny 781 I had).

(Just kidding ... but it does look remarkably like one. )

[bloke]

I had barely done any repairs. I should have threaded everything together, and maybe aluminum wasn't the best choice (??)

[ghmerrill]

... maybe aluminum wasn't the best choice (??)

I don't know. If you can avoid more weight and retain the necessary rigidity, it's a win.

[arpthark]

that is screaming "best vintage" cerveny and it's killing me

[Mary Ann]

It has been suggested that my problems with hoisting my 186 with its weight distribution, would be solved by a Piggy, which has a weight distribution more like the Hagen.
You're not taking dibs and unless it was for sale and I knew the price I won't try to put any in.

[bloke]

I don't know if he's going to finally decide to sell it after I get it quiet and dent free. Most of the dents are along the 4th circuit tubing - which is vulnerable on these old designs..

These typically don't go for much, though this one obviously has an added valve which makes a chromatic as well as a thingamajig that makes it able to be played closer to in tune. I suppose those add some value.

If he asks me to sell it, I'm not going to sell it unless there's room for me to make a small sales fee above and beyond how much he wants to receive (which would make the four valve part of it be offered for sale in the typical price range) and I guess some used price (hard to figure??) for the things that have been done to it to make it a little better.

That said, money is now worth about half of what it was in 2020, but most people are making about the same money they were then. Lots of complicated incalculables, as far as how much to ask for the thing.

I'm not going to be able to mess with this thing for a week or two at least. I'm sandwiching this work in between other things.

[Mary Ann]

How is Piggy playing different from 186 playing? Same length bugle but the rest is different.

[edfirth]

the Cerveny has a bore of .835 and a 186 Mirafone is .770. And the bell of a Piggy is right there next to your ear. Piggies also have the open wrap 3rd and 4th valve slides and are Very free blowing. Both are great, I guess it's a matter of which one works best in your particular group and which is more comfortable to hold. Good luck, Ed

[bloke]

The first one I ever saw was when some young men from the Australian youth Symphony were touring the US and two of them stayed in our home. One of them's last name was Sykes, but somehow I don't think it's the same one who's known for playing tuba in Australia today. (Maybe? But I'm thinking not)

The second one was when the Philadelphia orchestra was touring same year and Mr.Krzywicki was touring with one.

Those things have their ardent fans to this day, but - back then when they were a new thing, everyone had to have one...and it was early enough in the history of C tuba playing that no one considered a four valve C tuba to be incomplete.

The description's accurate.. if you've ever played a St Petersburg B flat, these "Piggy" things are sort of the same thing in C.
Yeah, though 5th valve is a mirrophone Kaiser valve. I only had connections with them at the time for parts, and I suppose I could have reached out to Czechoslovakia but it was easier to buy mirror phone stuff and the more of the rotor that you see is .835" as of course is the tubing.

This thing has floated in and out of my hands (I mean literally: hands) several times, but I don't remember ever actually owning it.


Too many old memories trigger others when I start to post here:
I've already told one story about this concert several times where I was entering into the back door of the hall (at that time even only being 17 I'd played enough gigs to where that's sort of where I was accustomed to entering), Ormandy stepped out of his cab to enter the same door, he tripped over the unusual double curb, I caught him (wearing his tails) preventing him from a very serious injury of some sort I'm certain, we were eye to eye, he stared at me in horror I let him go as soon as I was sure he was sure-footed, and he walked into the door without saying a thing to me.

On the way back to my car after that concert - still light out, probably September daylight savings time or something (I parked on the really rough cobblestones on the Mississippi River bluff - where there was free parking at that time, because I didn't like spending money to park, if I didn't have to), from off in the distance I heard some girls hollering. I eventually realized they were cat-calling and hollering at me from maybe the 7th floor of a hotel at the top of the bluff on Front Street (as I was most of the way down the bluff walking along Riverside Drive, which was parallel to Front). They were there in the UT band (UT Knoxville) in town for a UT/Memphis State game. Finally I could focus on what they were saying, and they were trying to get me to come up to their room. I couldn't tell from that far away whether or not they were pretty, so I declined. (truth)

[Mary Ann]

I get confused about the relationship between bore size and required air. I keep remembering that Nirschl huge CC I played that was NOT an air hog. But I don't know the bore on it, just the incredible size.
Many years ago I tried out a 3/4 Rudy CC and at the time it sucked the air out of my lungs. I don't know if it would today.
Just a curiosity question; would a Piggy be an air hog compared to a 186, because of the bore difference, or does that have nothing to do with it?
The NStar has bore sizes from .772" to .835 (valves) and it is absolutely not an air hog, including when the 5th valve is in use.
Or maybe it's a "stuffiness difference," with everyone's definition of "stuffy" being different. Like, I'm a horn player, and to me horns are not stuffy, or at least my horn is not. I think stuffiness has to do with tapers, actually.

[arpthark]

Air hog has a lot to do with mouthpipe taper IMO.

I had a tiny little German Ebtuba that had a .610” bore and was the worst air hog I’ve ever played. It had an essentially straight cylindrical .610” mouthpipe after the receiver (euro shank) with no taper.

[bloke]

Air hog has a lot to do with mouthpipe taper IMO.

...as well as a whole bunch of these newfangled mouthpieces featuring throat diameters that are huge like 8.5mm and even up to 9mm... and then they rely on these "gym" (gasping very quickly for huge breaths) training methods (rather than dialing things down to 8.1mm or 8.2mm, which makes a huge difference, whereby the player is mostly just required to be a musician, rather than an athletic hero).
Accessible equipment is not synonymous with student equipment. Playing smart often means not having to play hard, yet with the same or better results compared to those who play hard.

[Mary Ann]

Yup except I was play testing the 3/4 Rudy with the same cup I used on my then 184, which was not an air hog. So it "can" be the mouthpiece's throat size but in this case was not.

I also remember that was shipped to me from Florida by people who had no idea how to pack a tuba, and the bottom bow, which was made like a tank, was now somewhat flattened. I packed it properly to send it back, and they contacted me and offered me a job.

[bloke]

I have some still life pictures of fruit too...

[kingrob76]

How is Piggy playing different from 186 playing? Same length bugle but the rest is different.

I played a Piggy for most of my undergraduate time. I wouldn't call it an air hog, but, I would say it had a high ceiling for how much air you COULD push through it whereas the 186's I've played don't like to be pushed as hard on the top end in terms of volume. The Cerveny was a better fit for ME than a 186, but I did sell mine to finance a 188. I thought the Piggy responded easier at quieter volumes than most horns. The receiver on mine was enormous, luckily Doug Elliot was making Alexander-sized shanks for his stuff by then.

At the right price I would buy a Piggy again for sure, especially the Walter Sear branded ones that got silver-plated by Andersen when they were first imported (those are Holy Grail-level rare). A 5-valve one like this would get serious consideration if I was looking for a 4/4ish horn. This one is missing the thumb ring, which was one of those super-thick things you either loved or hated.