Tubas, euphoniums, mouthpieces, and anything music-related.
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This one came up in a local listing, and after testing it for only a few minutes I concluded that I should buy it. Besson New Standard E flat, 3-valve compensating. Serial number puts it at the beginning of the 70's. As I had never played on a 3-valve compensating design before, only a 4-valve (and found it to be quite stuffy), I was surprised at how open and nice it felt, in all valve combinations.
Not all is perfect, though. The bottom bow has a nasty dent, which probably is mostly a visual detriment.
In addition, one of the top caps is not original, which has led a previous owner to grind off some metal from the button to avoid metal hitting metal – unsuccessfully. So… if anyone has an appropriate replacement top cap for a vintage Besson lying around, I would be very interested.
And then it’s the question of mouthpiece. My Bach 25 clone of course does not fit. A “period-appropriate” Kosikup is available, but I would think a Wick 4 or 5 would probably bring out the potential of this tuba even more. But buying a new one? Too bloody expensive, when there should be plenty of these to be found, unused, as the small shank fades into oblivion…
Much fun to come.
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These users thanked the author ThirdHorn for the post (total 5):
The "standard" mouthpiece for a Besson Eb comp tuba with the smaller receiver is the Wick 3 (no letter). It is deep, not too wide in cup diameter, and urban legend is that the 3 was modeled on a 24AW, which also works well on these tubas, but has the standard American style shank. So the best option is a Wick no-letter. The smaller 4 & 5 don't carry tone that well and are really for beginning students, trombone doublers, and those with smaller embouchures than a typical player. The Wick no-letter mouthpieces are still a standard stock item. Expensive, yes, but worth it.
I owned the BBb 3-valve version for several years. Here are my observations:
On notes that require 1+2 as the regular fingering on other non-comp tubas, such as G and C (standard bass clef concert pitch notation) use 3 alone. 1+2 will intonate slightly sharp, since all three valves are tuned "dead" to the pitch, and with the upright valves, there is no "riding throttle" on any particular slide. The only exception may be the E nat right above the tuning open Eb, which depending on the tuba, may need to be fingered 1+2 due to it being the lowest pitch in the 5th partial series, which can tend to be flat.
Trust the comp loops. They do the job well, as designed and as intended all the way back to 1878 with Blaikley's invention of the compensating system.
Depending on your particular tuba, the 5th partials may or may not be in tune. Mine had a dent on one of the valve knuckles, kind of like "the dent" that some F-tuba players talk about, and the 5th partials were very well in tune with no need to resort to alternate fingerings on the tuba I had. Your mileage will vary.
If you play that high, you have all sorts of fingering options depending on the particular characteristics of your tuba for the 7th partials. Again, some are flat, some are in tune with alternate fingerings, even open or first valve alone for high Db, for example. Feel free to experiment.
The way the comp loops turn around through the valve block, notes below what would be on this tuba the Bb 1+3 below open first ledger line Eb are problematic. On most of these three-valve comp blocks, including any privilege tones you could get on other non-comp tubas, you just can't get there due to the anti-node (the tubing resonance) being damped by the second go-round through the valve block.
The good thing: these are very resonant, lyrical tubas. I prefer them to the 4-valve comps, especially when Besson transitioned from the New Standard to the Sovereign, increasing the bell size to 19 inches, and effectively ending the 3-valve comp Eb tubas. Unfortunately, I don't have any place to play an Eb, so every time over the years I purchased one, whether comp, non-comp, American, Miraphone, etc., I have ended up selling it a couple of years later due to it not being played.
The valve cap in the picture comes from the B&H version of this same tuba. All were made at the Edgeware Road factory. If the bells were engraved B&H, they received the knurled valve caps and buttons. If they were engraved Besson, they received the gumdrop valve buttons and the bottle cap valve caps.
Have fun with it! I really like the brushed silver. I hope you can find the matching hardware.
These users thanked the author iiipopes for the post:
A friend has a very similar tuba (but a non-comp) and ordered a Wick 5 with the proper shank, from England. He sounds great on it, and he's a big guy, so he "could" have used a larger cup but isn't.
These users thanked the author Mary Ann for the post:
Thanks for all helpful responses regarding the instrument and its particular quirks. Regarding the top cap, unfortunately the ebay seller does not ship to my location (somewhere in Europe), but I have reached out to Dawkes Music in the UK, and asked if they have the correct part. Based on my experience in the past they have (almost) everything.
When it comes to the mouthpiece, I am doubling on French horn, so Wick 3 isn’t happening, but I have no doubts that this would give the optimum result in the correct hands. It’s either going to be easy going with a 5, or more of an effort with 4. Right now I’m leaning towards the former. But I might need to buy a new one, yes.
These users thanked the author ThirdHorn for the post:
Meinl Weston 2145 CC
King Symphonic BBb circa 1936ish
Pre H.N.White, Cleveland Eb 1924ish (project)
Conn Sousaphone, fiberglass 1960s? (Project)
Olds Baritone 1960s?
Hoping to find a dirt cheap Flugabone
15 inch bell three valve compensating E-flat (in great condition to boot)
.
- great for strictly playing E-flat parts in British style brass bands
- great for playing jazz solo choruses in a jazz combo (such as for a front line player, who mostly plays trombone)
These users thanked the author bloke for the post (total 2):
The four valve version is my favorite Eb tuba (okay, maybe second to the Willson 5v Eb). Something about that 15" bell really makes them stand out. Punchy, fun, nice intonation, great sound. I've had five of them over the years and sold them all for one reason or another, but something about them always makes me want to buy one when a deal presents itself. If I played in a British brass band, I would hang on to one indefinitely.
These users thanked the author arpthark for the post:
Grumpikins wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2026 6:50 am
Really nice score. Now you need the Bb version to have a complimentary set. Very cool. Glad to hear it plays great too.
Funny thing is... The seller also had the 3-valve Bb compensating horn for sale in similar condition
Main use will be for marching and playing with my daughter's school's wind band, and it will most probably be sold again when her banding career comes to an end
iiipopes wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2026 3:49 pmThe "standard" mouthpiece for a Besson Eb comp tuba with the smaller receiver is the Wick 3 (no letter). It is deep, not too wide in cup diameter, and urban legend is that the 3 was modeled on a 24AW, which also works well on these tubas, but has the standard American style shank. So the best option is a Wick no-letter. The smaller 4 & 5 don't carry tone that well and are really for beginning students, trombone doublers, and those with smaller embouchures than a typical player. The Wick no-letter mouthpieces are still a standard stock item. Expensive, yes, but worth it.
@iiipopes — When I was a student at North Texas, my first F tuba experience came to me on the tiny Besson F 3+1 comp from the 1950s. I think it was one of these Eb tubas that had been cut to F without enough research and effort on the part of the gang on Edgeware Road. Tremendous sound, though. My first time playing it in the orchestra was on Berlioz's overture to Benvenuto Cellini. Holy cow!
Anyway, it had a Herco Eb in the case, which worked well, but it had a very sharp inner rim edge that killed me. (I have always used too much pressure.) I bought a Wick 3 with the small shank. It was great on that tuba. I think I liked the Herco better, but I just hated the rim. The Wick ticked all the boxes, and back then it was pretty inexpensive.
To the OP:Perhaps eBay will have one with the small shank so you can trial it without too much pain if it turns out not to work for you?
Best of luck!
These users thanked the author the elephant for the post:
ThirdHorn wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2026 2:15 am
Thanks for all helpful responses regarding the instrument and its particular quirks. Regarding the top cap, unfortunately the ebay seller does not ship to my location (somewhere in Europe), but I have reached out to Dawkes Music in the UK, and asked if they have the correct part. Based on my experience in the past they have (almost) everything.
When it comes to the mouthpiece, I am doubling on French horn, so Wick 3 isn’t happening, but I have no doubts that this would give the optimum result in the correct hands. It’s either going to be easy going with a 5, or more of an effort with 4. Right now I’m leaning towards the former. But I might need to buy a new one, yes.
I have found my personal best match with my Eb tuba with the Wick 5, and I am also a horn player but someone whose corners only barely are even visible on a Wick 5. A larger cup is a bit silly for me. Anyone who has been around me can tell you that an Eb NStar, if it isn't trying to be a contra-bass well below the staff, projects just fine with a Wick 5.
iiipopes wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2026 3:49 pmThe "standard" mouthpiece for a Besson Eb comp tuba with the smaller receiver is the Wick 3 (no letter). It is deep, not too wide in cup diameter, and urban legend is that the 3 was modeled on a 24AW, which also works well on these tubas, but has the standard American style shank. So the best option is a Wick no-letter. The smaller 4 & 5 don't carry tone that well and are really for beginning students, trombone doublers, and those with smaller embouchures than a typical player. The Wick no-letter mouthpieces are still a standard stock item. Expensive, yes, but worth it.
@iiipopes — When I was a student at North Texas, my first F tuba experience came to me on the tiny Besson F 3+1 comp from the 1950s. I think it was one of these Eb tubas that had been cut to F without enough research and effort on the part of the gang on Edgeware Road. Tremendous sound, though. My first time playing it in the orchestra was on Berlioz's overture to Benvenuto Cellini. Holy cow!
Anyway, it had a Herco Eb in the case, which worked well, but it had a very sharp inner rim edge that killed me. (I have always used too much pressure.) I bought a Wick 3 with the small shank. It was great on that tuba. I think I liked the Herco better, but I just hated the rim. The Wick ticked all the boxes, and back then it was pretty inexpensive.
To the OP:Perhaps eBay will have one with the small shank so you can trial it without too much pain if it turns out not to work for you?
Best of luck!
Yes. Herco mouthpieces, in their day, were underrated. But even if with today's boutique makers, you could not soften the bite of the Herco, because they were rhodium plated, not silver plated.
These users thanked the author iiipopes for the post:
On my quest for a mouthpiece for this tuba, I discovered that the specs of Wick 5 have changed from 30.0 mm inner diameter to 30.4 mm. It is probably not noticable, but as I needed to buy online anyway, I sent a request to Klier and asked for advice on a T9 (nominally 30.0 mm) with a custom small shank. Lo and behold, they happened to have an orphaned JK Exclusive 9D with 12.5 mm shank available, at a small but much appreciated discount. Sounds like fun, I thought, so I placed an order. Now it has arrived, and I am happy to say that the shank is a perfect fit. Time will tell if it's a good fit for me as well, but promising so far.
Congrats. These 15" bell Eb tubas play really well. But are heavy, like a tank. I preferred a DW 3 on mine, that has the best intonation and sound. I also played the later 4v compensated 18" bell version, which lacks the distinctive clarity and better intonation of the 15" bell. IMHO the 15" is just a better horn. Have fun!
These users thanked the author marccromme for the post:
