No ferrule? No problem!

[arpthark]

I picked up this YBB-103 that someone had added a 4th valve to. This was how they chose to piece together some of the 4th valve tubing:

[ghmerrill]

Well, that does look kind of cool and sleek -- except for the dent in the crook.

[gocsick]

That perplexing because if you can do you can make a ferrule.....

[ghmerrill]

That perplexing because if you can do you can make a ferrule.....

Not so sure about that. It's pretty simple to expand the end of a brass tube so you can stick another one inside it far enough to provide a good solder joint. But making a ferrule is really hard to do with hand tools, though you might get lucky and be able to get a length of tubing just the right diameter so you could just cut it to length. Except you'd have to find that tubing and order it, etc. Expanding the tube end can be done with a very crude approach, and with hand tools that a lot of people just have lying around.

That's what I did when I replaced the original mouthpiece receiver on my old Buescher tuba. It looks quite good, and works just fine, but I know what really happened there -- and there's a certain lack of "pride of workmanship" attached to it.

[bloke]

When I have to replace the straight parts of obsolete brand marching brass mouthpipes, I sort of manufacture the straight part (alter a piece of tapered tubing to the right dimensions), and then I put a swell at the back that's the equivalent of a ferrule, and slip it over the end of the curved part.
I also do this for those that are still made quite often, so they can get them back quickly and without having to pay so much for the repair. I'm pretty serious about matching the bore up at the juncture, though.
If you look at some Conn sousaphones made not too long ago, they manufactured their slides in this manner.

When I'm blasting through marching instrument repairs, making a ferrule and soldering both sides takes more time than that which I outlined above, and - actually - the above is a little stronger, because only one side of the connection (as there is only one side) has any chance of working its way loose.

I've never received a complaint due to utilizing this tack, and I've never received a complaint from hitting the replacement section with silver paint and clear coat.
Hey: I was NOT the one who broke the sumbich.

[gocsick]

Not so sure about that. It's pretty simple to expand the end of a brass tube so you can stick another one inside it far enough to provide a good solder joint. But making a ferrule is really hard to do with hand tools, though you might get lucky and be able to get a length of tubing just the right diameter so you could just cut it to length. Except you'd have to find that tubing and order it, etc. Expanding the tube end can be done with a very crude approach, and with hand tools that a lot of people just have lying around.

I guess I am spoiled by being handy with a lathe... Thick wall brass tubing/pipe is relatively easy to find at the hardware store. Chuck it up with just enough stickout, so you have nice rigidity... Bore to the right ID, then turn the OD. Cut you little decorative lines and part off. Since ferrules are short... even though they are thin wall you don't get a lot of flex... end even if you do.. it's just a ferrule.

[bloke]

Conn 36K (same as with 14K brass and 20K)

The slide "ferrules" that you see are simply expanded ends of inside slide tubes.

[LeMark]

When I added the 5th valve to my euph, I had to fit the valve into a section of the area between the 4th valve and the MTS, where the tube expanded. The exit part of the valve doesn't have a ferrule on it, just a pipe

[jose the tuba player]

I picked up this YBB-103 that someone had added a 4th valve to. This was how they chose to piece together some of the 4th valve tubing:

Show us the Horn.

[ghmerrill]

I guessI am spoiled by being handy with a lathe...

Being handy is not enough. You also have to have one, or have access to one. Shockingly, a lot of people don't.

[bloke]

There are ways to make ferrules without lathes, but - when doing school repairs, as I described in my reply above - the expansion method (perhaps done just a little bit more artfully than the picture, closer to the quality of the Conn slides pictured) gets school instruments back into their cases more quickly.

[ghmerrill]

... the expansion method (perhaps done just a little bit more artfully than the picture ...

So how do YOU do that? I know how I've done it -- which seems excessively crude. Do you just use a pipe/tube expander? Or something more "artful"? Anneal to avoid cracking?

[bloke]

... the expansion method (perhaps done just a little bit more artfully than the picture ...

So how do YOU do that? I know how I've done it -- which seems excessively crude. Do you just use a pipe/tube expander? Or something more "artful"? Anneal to avoid cracking?

anneal/expander/slide it over a steel rod, tap on it with a dent hammer until it looks a bit more "finished"...but (school repairs) only "good enough".

[ghmerrill]

anneal/expander/slide it over a steel rod, tap on it with a dent hammer until it looks a bit more "finished"...but (school repairs) only "good enough".

That was pretty much my approach when I replaced the mouthpiece receiver on the 1924 horn. But that ended up looking pretty good because the end of the new receiver covered any violence done to the original leadpipe in expanding it.

[Grumpikins]

The entire bugle on my olds baritone was manufactured that way. I bet it made assembly and soldering easier. Maybe not better, but it seemed to work fine.

[Tubajug]

Show us the Horn.

+1

[arpthark]

Show us the Horn.

+1

Here is what I bought:



I removed the fourth valve (actually, it fell apart before I even took a torch to it) but the previous person cut the dogleg after the 3rd valve, so it will take a little bit of finagling to get the main tuning slide attached again. I think this is essentially going to be something I will have to take completely apart and put back together because so many components are damaged or missing.

The added fourth valve was from an Olds O-99 (or Bach stencil thereof).

[Grumpikins]

Um... trainwreck?

Will be interesting to see how you resurrect that.

[bloke]

Not being the selfish type, I'm so delighted that - rather than myself - you ended up that such an unusual find.

[arpthark]

Not being the selfish type, I'm so delighted that - rather than myself - you ended up that such an unusual find.

oh yeah, don’t hide it, we know you’re jealous you don’t have this thing lurking in the corner of your shop.

I paid a couple hundred bucks for it, have harvested all the extra parts that were tacked on, and now just have to turn what’s left into a usable 3 valve tuba… probably easier said than done, but I’m in no rush. Add it to the pile…