Looking for Research on the Value of Music in Educational Settings

[ghmerrill]

I certainly don't have any patience for some overseeing entity telling me that there are certain (perfectly neutral) words that I am to avoid using because they "trigger" some people.

I think you're hopeless since you believe that there are words that are neutral. And I apologize for the non-neutrality of that observation.

[bloke]

"mother"




https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18bcpx13nJ/

[tofu]

Seriously - that’s a joke. Do you not have a sense of humor? Do you really think the approach would be to scream at her (and when did I mention scream) or actually throw her off a mountain???

So far, everything you've said has been full of aggression and wanting to punish bureaucrats. I can't tell when it's a joke and when it isn't. But the continuing angry rhetoric doesn't sound at all like a joke.

I’m in suburban Chicago. In a county that has been among the top 5 wealthiest in the nation, but those numbers for pay are very common amongst the 6 collar counties of Chicago. Teacher salaries average near $200,000 and many with the extra they get paid for being coaches etc can approach $300K - especially if they have 30+ years in.

You don't need to tell me about Chicago. My wife grew up there, our three children were born there. I taught at Loyola University for 10 years, lived in Evanston, and then, for several more, lived in Wheaton, and worked in Naperville. I'm quite familiar with both the urban and suburban parts of that landscape, and having my children in schools there.

Having been on my local school board the OP would be well served by amping up the pressure on this woman. ... Mobilize the Union ... Intense public pressure ... Have people start calling for her resignation. ... dingbat ... find the kid in the band whose dad is a lawyer ... Draw in community groups ... Come for my kids - I come for you.

Really? Or is that sort of rhetoric just another "joke"? The point is to solve the problem. The point isn't to punish someone you happen to be angry with. The goal is to keep a band program.

... it’s paramount to stop her in her tracks and make it so unpleasant she doesn’t pursue it ever again. Nothing beats having the community itself come for you.

Ummm .... I'm thinking that this is definitely not likely to be the best and most likely approach for the community, and definitely not the language to use in describing it. I guess we disagree on that.

You sounded exactly like the academic bureaucrat I assumed you to be from your writing. I have little use for the academic world - which resembles in no way the real world. This woman made a decision with no input from any stakeholder & had no budget reason (from the info of the OP) to be made. In the business world situations often arise where action needs to be taken - immediately. One has to take swift action and process/politeness goes out the window. You can use all the pejorative words you want about me. But in this case there was no reason for the action she took needed to be done the way she did it. There was no budget reason and she owed it to all involved to be open and have input from the stakeholders. This did not happen at all apparently.

She chopped the music program in the fashion she did as she knew it would be unpopular and folks would fight back. It’s like Mayor Daley demolishing Meigs Field on the Chicago lakefront in the middle of the night with no warning and no input. Once the runways were dug up - they were never coming back. He knew that the stakeholders would not have made the removal easy. When questioned by the OP she had no argument for her actions - other than a vague philosophical grounds issue with it. WTH does that even mean - perhaps back in HS she once dated a band student who dumped her. I mean come on now - I know BS when I hear it. Once the music program is axed it will likely never come back. I run a big business & if I had an underling give me that kind of answer - they’d be immediately escorted out of the door by security with their personal effects FedX to them. If the OP is to be believed (and I have no reason not to believe him) this did not need to be done from a budget stand point. A decision this bad made in this fashion reflects so poorly on her ability to perform her job in a competent fashion and one has to question her continuation as superintendent.

[gocsick]

[
You sounded exactly like the academic bureaucrat I assumed you to be from your writing. I have little use for the academic world - which resembles in no way the real world.

As a career academic.. I concur

There is an old joke... Why are faculty meetings so vitriolic and vicious? Because there is nothing at stake!

[ghmerrill]

You sounded exactly like the academic bureaucrat I assumed you to be from your writing. I have little use for the academic world - which resembles in no way the real world.

Boy, you get SO much SO wrong. But keep the insults and personal attacks flowing in every direction. It's definitely the best approach for you -- as someone who runs a big business.

[ghmerrill]

There is an old joke... Why are faculty meetings so vitriolic and vicious? Because there is nothing at stake!

As a career academic who stopped being a career academic ( ) ... I really can't remember any faculty meeting, in my decade of attending them, that was even remotely vitriolic. Of course there were factions, and possibly apprehension and some trepidation among factions. But I honestly never saw anything that was ill-tempered, rancorous, or even dishonest or deceitful. Maybe I was just lucky -- but I also know of a number of other departments and institutions in which the same was true.

I once (long, long, after I'd left the university and was working in industry) asked one of my old friends at a major northeastern university center why he hadn't spoken up about some of the actions of a colleague whom I and others thought was causing some real problems in a certain area of industry -- and which were based on intellectually dishonest approaches. His response was that, while he acknowledged the problem, he felt an obligation to retain the "collegiality" of the department. This is not an attitude that you'd find particularly prevalent in business and industry ( <- understatement). I didn't agree with it, but I understood it. Somewhat ironically, that old friend had taken the opposite path I had: after a career of some years in industry (large computer corporation of the time), he had moved into academia at the university level (and become a well-known and respected logician and historian of logic).

I do still quite vividly recall one faculty meeting (I'm not making this up ...) in which a couple of factions of the department had become concerned that the "orientation" of new hires was beginning to deviate from what they perceived to the the important and traditional orientation of the faculty in one or two fundamental respects. It was difficult for them to express this position without appearing doctrinaire or slanted in ways they wanted to avoid, and so they finally proposed a motion according to which all members of the department (and all new hires) had to be "open to the transcendent" . This was done without dwelling in any way on what "transcendent" might mean, and it was acknowledged that all current members of the department (which would include me) were open to the transcendent. The motion passed and everyone was happy. (I abstained, in large part because I didn't have a clue what "transcendent" meant in the context of the motion, and of course I didn't want to disturb the "collegiality" of the department. Plus, I was clearly open to the transcendent, whatever that meant. ). It was all very pleasant, and no one's feelings were hurt -- except there may have been some irritation about the length of the meeting.

I kind of wish, from time to time, that I had all the records of the university courses I taught, the faculty meetings, handbooks, and such -- just for nostalgia purposes. But I tossed that all a long time ago. However, I do still maintain some contacts, and expect to shortly see (in a week or two) the guy who was my roommate for 3 years in graduate school, since he's on his way here for a year-long stint on research fellowship at the National Humanities Center. Our catch-up sessions are always pretty funny.

[shovelingtom]

Back in the land of internet access and stuff and had a chance to get more background.

The state mandated a tech curriculum for 7th and 8th grades which is made up of very worthwhile stuff. The question was where to put it. New class? Blend it with existing classes? No real guidance from the state on that. I feel like it should be part of FACS (home ec.), which is also mandatory in jr. high, and incorporated into all of the other classes too. Either that or eliminate one of the two years of Ag the jr. high kids take (Ag. education is also mandatory, but having spent a large number of hours in my life chopping cotton and castrating hogs; I know there’s nothing you can learn in a classroom about chopping cotton and castrating hogs that can’t be learned in 2 minutes of actually doing those things, ie having grown up in an Ag. family, I have little faith that the kids actually learn anything in those classes).

The superintendent decided that she’d rather go with a dedicated class and she cut the number of elective classes down to one instead of 2. Used to be the kids got to pick 2 of art, choir, or band. Now in the fall they choose art or choir and in the spring art or band.

Had a short chat with the superintendent yesterday afternoon at the football game. Sitting down for more discussion later in the week. Haven’t read most of the discussion here yet but looking forward to catching up.

[ghmerrill]

Now in the fall they choose art or choir and in the spring art or band.

Now that seems a bit nutty -- but I'd guess that there are more kids interested in taking "art" than choir or band. I have to say, that ... just personally ..., I think that the only course I never learned anything useful or interesting in (Elementary School and Jr. High School) was art. I do not include in this the summer course in Mechanical Drawing (Drafting) that I took -- but that was taught by one of the shop teachers, rather than an "art" teacher. That isn't because I think that art can't be taught, or taught well. It just wasn't ever taught well, in my own experience.