Does anyone make an F tuba that...

[Finetales]

...has front action pistons in a 3+3 (normal lengths, not Viennese) or 3+1 compensating layout, and is ideally a 5/4 or larger?

After playing a few different tubas in a big band setting (dedicated tuba parts, like the Gil Evans stuff), I've concluded that this combination would be my ideal instrument for the job. As I am just a filthy bass trombonist, most of my tuba work is in a big band as a double from the bass trombone chair.

[bort2.0]

There is a Besson 985 F tuba that has 4 inline compensating valves. Generally, not regarded as the best of F tubas.

Here's one:

https://flemingrepair.com/products/bess ... Ta_5oau5xs

[PlayTheTuba]

Wessex makes a 3+1 Compensating F tuba.


Wessex British F Tuba - TF458 XP
https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/br ... tuba-tf458

Besson also made a 3+1 F tuba in the past. One was for sale at the Army Band Conference. In hind sight I should've taken an entire photo of the instrument.

I took a photo of its shank though... Can be found in this forum post I made.

Mouthpiece Collection and How far do they Insert into a Reciever!
viewtopic.php?t=8338

Both tubas are not 5/4 sized though.

[Bob Kolada]

The only split valve, front comp valve bass tubas I know of are an older British 3+1 front action Eb, Wessex used to make a copy. Highams maybe, I think it was their Cavalry model; my guess is you play it as a 3 valve horn while riding and only use the side valve when stationary.

[ghmerrill]

As I am just a filthy bass trombonist, most of my tuba work is in a big band as a double from the bass trombone chair.

Just from a perspective in terms of cost, practicality, and ease of use ...

I think about getting another tuba from time to time -- for use in both "community" band and the big band I play in (though genuine tuba parts there are pretty scarce). As a matter of practicality, utility, and convenience, I'd probably get a low-cost small (3/4 even) BBb. I think about the last thing I'd get would be an F -- of any sort -- for those uses -- but I think I understand the attraction. Failing to find a good used horn of that sort at a reasonable price to me (and I'd be ignoring any cosmetic issues), I'd probably (prepare yourself ...) get one of the Schiller small BBb horns (not even a 4-valve -- because I wouldn't need that). Such a horn would do the job, be inexpensive, and be eminently portable.

Other than that, I'd probably look for a similarly inexpensive Eb rather than an F -- likely medium size, non-comp. In that case, I'd probably go with rotary valves (for a couple of reasons). But if you want something that's more in the F-ish direction, there's the Norwegian Star ($$$$$$$), alas with rotary valves.

But that's perhaps just a reflection of my own tastes and experience in playing such things. However, I think you can pitch a lot more big band sound out of a BBb or Eb with ease than you're likely to do out of most F's you could find/afford/be happy with.

Or ... get yourself a cheap cimbasso???? There's a bass bone guy around here in one of the big bands that sometimes uses his (a Wessex, I think).

[arpthark]

...has front action pistons in a 3+3 (normal lengths, not Viennese)

Hey Tiffany. If you're seriously interested in a Frankentuba with this sort of setup, contact me. I have spare parts from two Eb projects that I could likely use to build a viable 3+3 F tuba with a graduated bore. Price would be pretty low, but of course with shipping to CA ($250-300ish). This would be something I'd likely get around to this winter or next year.

[ghmerrill]

I have spare parts from two Eb projects that I could likely use to build a viable 3+3 F tuba with a graduated bore. Price would be pretty low, but of course with shipping to CA ($250-300ish).

Oh ... now that's potentially a horse of a different stripe.

[ghmerrill]

... viable 3+3 F tuba

Just as a matter of curiosity -- and trying not to be interested in such a thing myself -- what sort of architecture for the 3+3 are you thinking? Would this be 3 front action + 3 side action? Or 3 top action + 3 side action? ... Bell size? I've always had an unhealthy attraction to the idea of a 3+3 F tuba.

[arpthark]

... viable 3+3 F tuba

Just as a matter of curiosity -- and trying not to be interested in such a thing myself -- what sort of architecture for the 3+3 are you thinking? Would this be 3 front action + 3 side action? Or 3 top action + 3 side action? ... Bell size? I've always had an unhealthy attraction to the idea of a 3+3 F tuba.

3 top and 3 side, like a French C tuba.

The body/bell would be scavenged from the smallest Buescher Eb, 14”-ish bell and a .656” (or smaller? would have to check) bore. The second set of pistons would be from a Martin Eb, a bit larger bore.

[Finetales]

Other than that, I'd probably look for a similarly inexpensive Eb rather than an F -- likely medium size, non-comp. In that case, I'd probably go with rotary valves (for a couple of reasons). But if you want something that's more in the F-ish direction, there's the Norwegian Star ($$$$$$$), alas with rotary valves.

But that's perhaps just a reflection of my own tastes and experience in playing such things. However, I think you can pitch a lot more big band sound out of a BBb or Eb with ease than you're likely to do out of most F's you could find/afford/be happy with.

Or ... get yourself a cheap cimbasso???? There's a bass bone guy around here in one of the big bands that sometimes uses his (a Wessex, I think).

I have a Kanstul 4-valve 3/4 C tuba (the one in my profile picture, where I am playing it in a big band!) that I usually use for this type of work. Sometimes it's the perfect choice, but I just did a show of all Gil Evans stuff and I borrowed a friend's Yamaha YFB-621 because in my hands it was much better for that part than my little C would have been. But in doing so I also learned what I liked and didn't like about playing the typical 5-valve F tuba configuration in that environment, which is what prompted me to make this post.

There are plenty of factory Fs and Ebs that could do the job just fine, but when I thought of exactly what I would want in a tuba were I to play that book again in the future, I realized I couldn't think of any existing instrument that checked all of my little hypothetical boxes.

Rotary valves could be something, provided there are no dead notes like the infamous low C on a lot of rotary Fs. I tend to prefer piston tubas, but the shorter throw of rotors is appealing.

Cimbasso isn't the move as these are specifically tuba parts (usually as a double from the bass trombone chair), though I do want a cimbasso someday. Contrabass trombone is fun, but cimbasso is a lot more agile!

Hey Tiffany. If you're seriously interested in a Frankentuba with this sort of setup, contact me. I have spare parts from two Eb projects that I could likely use to build a viable 3+3 F tuba with a graduated bore. Price would be pretty low, but of course with shipping to CA ($250-300ish). This would be something I'd likely get around to this winter or next year.

Now that is a very intriguing proposition!

[ghmerrill]

Rotary valves could be something, provided there are no dead notes like the infamous low C on a lot of rotary Fs. I tend to prefer piston tubas, but the shorter throw of rotors is appealing.

I'm with you on that, but I'm not sure why. I think it's just the tactile feel of the pistons. But my Cerveny 780 BBb horn was great with the rotors. And adjusting alignment on the rotars is simple, and they're basically bullet proof if you don't abuse them, and the valves just don't wear, and the German/Czech style horns don't collect water and need more than one water valve, ... Still, if I get another tuba, it's more likely to be piston.

The 3+3 F being talked about is particularly interesting because you never have to use your little finger -- which is one reason I like the 3+1 compensators.

Cimbasso isn't the move as these are specifically tuba parts (usually as a double from the bass trombone chair), though I do want a cimbasso someday. Contrabass trombone is fun, but cimbasso is a lot more agile!

I don't want to think about a contrabass (not that I'd ever have a need for one). The double valve bass is enough of an ergonomic challenge.

You know, a good Eb (preferably 4-valve) or BBb helicon might be interesting for a big band context -- as long as no one is sitting to your left, which is true in the usual tbone big band set-up.

[ghmerrill]

3 top and 3 side, like a French C tuba.

Yeah, I think that's a great model for such a horn -- a French tuba in a better key and not wonky. What a concept!!

[arpthark]

3 top and 3 side, like a French C tuba.

Yeah, I think that's a great model for such a horn -- a French tuba in a better key and not wonky. What a concept!!

Well, at this point that's all it is -- a concept. We'll see what happens.