for those of you who own and use King sousaphones

[bloke]

Do you have a problem with the tuning bits leaking?

(even if never damaged, and even if you've sanded off the lacquer from the contact area)

I'm seriously thinking of taking a beat-up Olds/Reynolds neck (with the receiver portion in good condition) swapping out the oddball-sized King receiver for the standard-shank-size Reynolds receiver, and pairing this hybrid neck up with a pair of Conn tuning bits.

Otherwise, I always find myself holding the King pair of tuning bits in my hand, positioning them (ahead of time) where I know they are going to need to be positioned in relation to each other, and tapping them together quite smartly with a rawhide mallet - in order to keep them from leaking. I might even do the same thing with a pair of bits into the King neck.

Of course, this would also free me up to use Olds/Reynolds bits, Yamaha bits, JP bits, or even (almost bottoming out, but maybe not) Jupiter bits, were I to find any of those others preferable to Conn, or mix and match to preferable in some way.

bloke,
You shouldn't interfere with the acoustics of a King sousaphone by monkeying around with the tuning bits and the neck receiver.
A genius acoustician back in 1918, Dr. Polonski Warraptorstorski (too old to be drafted into the Great War) designed those tuning bits, and - all along - those tuning bits have been the secret to King sousaphones' superior intonation characteristics.

... Yeah, I am making fun of the Martin people's voodoo, here.
Either you Martin folk can take a joke, or you can't.

I love King sousaphones, but I'm consistently quite annoyed by their tuning bits leaking.

[iiipopes]

Do you have a problem with the tuning bits leaking?

Having started as a freshman in high school on a King 'glass souzy, having played many over the decades, both relatively ancient and modern: only when the bits, which as you know have to be assembled in a certain configuration or order, have been assembled wrong way around, slammed together when there were leaks due to the improper assembly, causing the bits to warp and leak like a seive. When the bits are in relatively decent shape and have been put in the correct order from the mouthpiece to the gooseneck, no, I have not experienced leakage.

[Basses88]

I’m the second owner of a King Giant. The original owner ordered directly from the factory, and played with a single S-shaped bit that came with the horn.

[MartinMan]

... Yeah, I am making fun of the Martin people's voodoo, here.
Either you Martin folk can take a joke, or you can't.

You knew I'd have to chime in when the "voodoo" gets called out.

I'm my opinion (having played on many different Martins that had the Conn swap on the neck/bits and several with the original) I'd compare the importance of of the Martin bits to any other manufacturer-specific feature/gimmick: Does it "make a difference?" Sure, but whether or not that difference is significant enough to be worth it to the player is a matter of individual taste.

For me personally, I've decided the bits make a significant enough difference that I was willing to track down two different sousas with the original bits setup (one with the later two-piece locking bits and another with the older-style single Z bit) but do they play "good enough" without them? Definitely. I've just fully drank the Martin cool-aid and I believe it works, placebo or otherwise.

That being said, I won't insist to anyone else that the bits must never be tampered with on their horn, and I think the Olds/Reynolds swap makes a lot of sense.

[bloke]

Not only do the king bits (even when new) tend to leak, but they tend to come loose more than any other make, and - if I plugged in some pretty damn good mouthpiece - I really don't want to see it hit the concrete.

You know, the Jupiter bits can be bought with tension screws.

Martin tuning bits:
They cleverly avoid the reverse taper that occurs with other makes of bits, but they're a whole bunch more trouble to make.

[iiipopes]

Not only do the king bits (even when new) tend to leak, but they tend to come loose more than any other make, and - if I plugged in some pretty damn good mouthpiece - I really don't want to see it hit the concrete.

You know, the Jupiter bits can be bought with tension screws.

Martin tuning bits:
They cleverly avoid the reverse taper that occurs with other makes of bits, but they're a whole bunch more trouble to make.

Oh, boy, don't they! Before my first half-time marching show as a high school freshman with the (old then) King 'glass souzy, nobody told me to hang on to my mouthpiece and bits during the run-in. My mouthpiece and bits came loose and dropped. So I marched the show, pretending to play. Then at the end I had to run back onto the field to find the mouthpiece and bits. Fortunately, at least they had stayed together. And if I may brag about my marching, at first I couldn't see them, because they fell exactly straight down on top of and aligned with the chalk stripe of the yard Iine I was assigned for the run-in. Of course, from then on, I held onto everything carefully but firmly.

[PlayTheTuba]

I also do not like King Sousaphone bits!

I'd say go for it!

Hopefully if someone in the future needs bits and the ones you ultimately decided on get lost... It's not a pain to find or easily make.

Or make a one piece solution.

Although, I own a pit tuba and don't own a Sousaphone.

[tofu]

Never had a problem with King bits leaking or getting loose. I play a bunch of pre war kings - I do use pre war King bits. Both bits and horns though are very low mileage even though they are pushing 95 years old. Perhaps since you’re old the leaking is coming from you and not the horn...


I’ve never really understood the different bits other than being a proprietary thing to keep the customer buying from the manufacturer. Since I also use a Conn Helicon it’s sometimes maddening to show up for a gig and discover I grabbed the wrong mouthpiece bag for King or Conn and it has the wrong bits. So now I keep an extra set of both in the car.

[travisd]

Wait... you're telling me that the King fiberglass sousa that I've had for 30+ years now - the bits could have been better? Damn... I've always just figured that was how they all are. Great, now my expectations have been raised and it'll annoy me every time I play it from here on out. Thanks.

[bloke]

Wait... you're telling me that the King fiberglass sousa that I've had for 30+ years now - the bits could have been better? Damn... I've always just figured that was how they all are. Great, now my expectations have been raised and it'll annoy me every time I play it from here on out. Thanks.

I'm thinking that I'm going to (possibly) put a Reynolds receiver on my King neck and use a pair of Jupiter bits.
There four different Jupiter bits available from which to choose:

- severely bent, no tension screw
- severely bent, with tension screw
- nearly straight, no tension screw
- nearly straight, with tension screw

I'm not sure which combination of bends I would choose, but I'm pretty sure I would choose two of them WITH tension screws.

Because they are slightly undersized for standard shank on their fitting, I might trim a transferred Reynolds neck receiver (standard shank, and NOT that goofy King receiver size, which doesn't receive mouthpieces) down a bit short, to avoid Jupiter bits bottoming out.

Otherwise, I might go ahead and put a Jupiter bits NECK RECEIVER (with screw) onto the small end of the King neck tube, just so I have three tension screws holding everything very securely.

Yes, it costs me less to make one of my mouthpieces than the prices for which I sell them, but they still cost me a LOT, and I do NOT want to see one of them hit the pavement.

one last thing:
The bore of the Jupiter tuning bits looks to be a bit smaller than with the King tuning bits - particularly the larger one which is the one that inserts into the neck. In my experience, more resistance = more ease in favoring pitches. King sousaphones played pretty well in tune, but far from perfect. I LIKE "ease in favoring pitches".

more on (moron?) tuning:
I'm not stating that I have this magical mystical thing named "perfect pitch" (though I have seen to have recovered my ability to "hear" an E-natural, having begun playing the guitars again) but I don't like hearing my own produced sounds grinding against others' sounds, so the more in tune a funky old sousaphone can be, the more I'm going to like it.

$10,000 carbon fiber sousaphones:
Y'all with money burning holes in your pockets knock yourself out.

[catgrowlB]

I really crave old King sousas, but generally dislike the bits that go with them. That old 2-in-1 S-shaped bit that Basses88 posted is really cool, but probably very rare. Maybe you could fabricate something like that?

You mention going the Jupiter route. Just change out/alter the lower mouthpipe so you can use Jupiter neck/bits if you want. That way you can also use Selmer Signet neck/bits if you choose - that gives you more options. They are about the same size -- iiipopes has posted on that.

I will say for me, I really like the Yamaha neck/bits. The Yammy bits seem to stay in place best of the friction-fit bits out there. But they don't have the wingnut screws like the Jupiter and Selmer bits utilize.

[bloke]

I really crave old King sousas, but generally dislike the bits that go with them. That old 2-in-1 S-shaped bit that Basses88 posted is really cool, but probably very rare. Maybe you could fabricate something like that?

You mention going the Jupiter route. Just change out/alter the lower mouthpipe so you can use Jupiter neck/bits if you want. That way you can also use Selmer Signet neck/bits if you choose - that gives you more options. They are about the same size -- iiipopes has posted on that.

I will say for me, I really like the Yamaha neck/bits. The Yammy bits seem to stay in place best of the friction-fit bits out there. But they don't have the wingnut screws like the Jupiter and Selmer bits utilize.

Yamaha tuning bits aren't that different from Olds/Reynolds tuning bits. I sort of like the JP tuning bits. First of all, a pair of them doesn't cost me a freaking $150. Secondly, both of the pair basically fit into a mouthpiece receiver and both basically accept a mouthpiece, but they're actually reversible - whereby one of them accepts a standard shank mouthpiece more nicely and the other one accepts a Euro shank mouthpiece more nicely.
I still like the tension screw for all three connections, though.

Young scholars tear up Jupiter sousaphone necks and tuning bits the worst, but me...?
I'm the one with the huge six quarter B flat tuba made out of thin sheet metal whereby (at least so far with fingers crossed) I've hardly put any dinks in it at all.