Grad school upsize thoughts

[ahorton]

Hey everyone,

I’ve been playing an Eastman EBC832 for a while now for my undergrad, and it’s been an absolute workhorse. It's served me ridiculously well in undergrad but I often feel like I could use a horn thats just a bit bigger.

However, for my master's, I’m feeling the need for a true 5/4 or 6/4 CC. The 832 is great, but I’m looking for something with a bit more acoustic width, and just have a little more presence—which has me considering options like the Eastman 836, B&S PT-6 / MRP, Meinl Weston Thor, or Miraphone 1292.

Also wondering for those of you who made a similar move, what did you upgrade to/ from and why?

[russiantuba]

I used my Miraphone 1291CC through all 3 of my degrees. I never had an issue balancing and even on the professional level still, and the core of sound mixed with the depth gives me flexibility in a wide variety of ensembles.

The 832, IMO, has a design issue of a .689 bore when the bore doesn’t match the rate of taper. I have not tried the 834, but it might suit you better. However when I played the 832, I felt no issue with projection, but with color change and overall timbre it didn’t do it for me.

My best advice I would give to one of my college students going to graduate work—audition in what you are comfortable on now. Once you decide on a program, play on several horns and work with your professor with your goals. I like my 1291, but the small bell Thor and a good PT 6/PT6P would be suitable for everything as well. I think a good Kalison DS or the new Yamaha 623 (which I haven’t played and need to) would be horns I would consider

[russiantuba]

Another thing to think about is the actual definition of presence.

I mention Roger Bobo with the LAPO on his Miraphone 186, Deck on the Sinopoli Pictures/Night on Bald Mountain, Copland Symphony 3, etc on the 4/4+ sized Geib rotor tuba, but another one that is more "meta" might be Gene Pokorny on Prokofiev Symphony no. 5 on his Hirsbrunner HB 2 4/4 CC (Many Russian and European orchestras use 4/4 BBbs but that is a different topic). Anyways, I would consider all of these players to have ample orchestral presence.

6/4 Yorkophones have a more diffused and wider sound, more side to side depth as I refer it and less core. This leads to more section presence, but much less presence in the audience in my experiences on both sides (to get the desired clarity on a Yorkophone is a ton of work). There is a good balance between the two. Personally, the Miraphone 497 Hagen BBb gives a very balanced effect if you want a larger horn with weight, depth/width, and presence.

[bloke]

- C tuba for college
- big C tuba for grad school
- F tuba for doctoral work
- Sell them to get your car fixed.

[prodigal]

- C tuba for college
- big C tuba for grad school
- F tuba for doctoral work
- Sell them to get your car fixed.

Get a teaching job. (It's somewhat reliable ). Learn to maintain and fix your stuff and/or find a friend who likes to work on your OLD vehicle for beer money.

Buy a 4/4 contrabass (old 186) after you have paid off your debt(s). Enjoy playing again, then scavenge an Eb or F after selling some of your other stuff.

[tubanh84]

Out of everything you've mentioned, the PT6 would make the most sense. It's a great horn. Probably the best orchestral horn you can buy. Mine was markedly easier to play than my Rudy 5/4, and if it produced less sound than a York-copy-inspired-6/4 I never noticed.

Having said that, I've since moved to a 4/4 (Gnagey Holton-plus-King), and I have played it in several groups and never felt lacking. It's pretty similar to the 832.

I've also played an 832 briefly, and it was fantastic.

I like the .689 bore 4/4 tubas. I'm convinced that the bore is very well-suited to the length, and their intonation tends to be a lot better than CC's with bigger bores. And I've learned as I've gotten older that I can make an A+ sound on a good horn and an A sound on a bad horn, but I can't change a horn's intonation characteristics.

If most of your playing will be with university ensembles, regional orchestras, and smaller ensembles, I don't see how the 832 wouldn't suit your needs. However, as someone who is trying to further your knowledge and education on the tuba, there is also something to be said for gaining experience on a different and bigger horn. It can't help but make you a more well-rounded player and teacher.

If you can afford it without too much of an effect on your life, you'd be well-served by a PT6.

[dp]

Have you discussed this with your teacher?

Perhaps you can ask them to "recommend" a regional high level player
who is also something of an equipment jock (not a "dealer")
that you can take a lesson or two from and get some advice?

If this thread gets to 2+pages you'll have so many different recommendations
the forum advice may not be very "selection helpful".... just some thoughts...

[bloke]

common claim in a sales ad:

"I'm selling this (medium large, plays pretty well in tune) C tuba which I've 'outgrown', and have bought a (really large, difficult to play in-tune) C tuba."

[russiantuba]

common claim in a sales ad:

"I'm selling this (medium large, plays pretty well in tune) C tuba which I've 'outgrown', and have bought a (really large, difficult to play in-tune) C tuba."

And in a few years after this: “I’m selling this amazing example of very large CC tuba to downsize to a model easier to control that better fits my playing style”.

[isaactuba]

I originally planned writing out my whole story with school and life and tubas, but I'll just show you this chronological list:

Eastman 632 (4/4)
Eastman 836 (6/4)
B&S MRPC (5/4)
Yamaha 623 (4/4)

I loved having more sound, but it was never really necessary. I was able to win a few regional auditions on my 632 and the Yamaha 621 (3/4 F) I was playing on at the time. I got better with the rotors on the MRP over time, but I never really felt like I was "at home" like I was on a piston tuba. Probably would've stayed on a 5/4 horn if it were pistons, but I am glad to be back on a 4/4 horn. I am a 4/4 guy (I am not very tall... but not short either). I am definitely a victim of the "selling my 4/4 because I bought a bigger horn" and "selling my 6/4 because I'm downsizing" pipeline. If you are very serious about playing and are already finding some success in local auditions, then I'd recommend considering an upgrade. Otherwise, (IMO) it's worth keeping a horn that is easier to play and which you may sound better on.

PS: The Yamaha has a bore of 0.768", which is pretty big for a 4/4 horn. It's very nimble and has a brilliant core sound. I'd recommend it if you can find one.

[prodigal]

If you "bigger" horn, a real (rotor) PT-6 would serve you well AND HAVE A MUCH BETTER RESALE than the newer Eastman's IMHO.

Used PT-6s don't sit around for long. When you're ready to downsize to a 4/4 down the road, you'll have some extra beer money after unloading it, or just keep it for the rest of your life.

You're gonna need a bass tuba too.....

[Mary Ann]

I'd like the opportunity to try a PT6 some day; based on my surprising encounter with the CC Nirschl my friend has (it was easy to play, all the way up and down, and had a HUGE sound) -- while I doubt I'd dump the Hagen to own one, it would still be fun to have at it some time. So many have praised it here.

[Pauvog1]

Since you got accepted on the Eastman, why not let the new teacher guide the decision, or at least give their 2 cents. If you want an upgrade for you, cool. Make sure pitch is workable. Most conductors aren't really paying that much attention to us as we think. They want in time, in tune, and in style first. Most of that is not driven by horn choice.

[bloke]

Since you got accepted on the Eastman, why not let the new teacher guide the decision, or at least give their 2 cents. If you want an upgrade for you, cool. Make sure pitch is workable. Most conductors aren't really paying that much attention to us as we think. They want in time, in tune, and in style first. Most of that is not driven by horn choice.

If you're sticking with the American "C tuba for college" thing,
If normal sized, 186
If oversized, pt6 (rotary), or 5450 (piston)
If jumbo, think long and hard.
If you want a cheap jumbo in C, I believe all of us know which particular make and model floods the used market.

[Pauvog1]

Since you got accepted on the Eastman, why not let the new teacher guide the decision, or at least give their 2 cents. If you want an upgrade for you, cool. Make sure pitch is workable. Most conductors aren't really paying that much attention to us as we think. They want in time, in tune, and in style first. Most of that is not driven by horn choice.

If you're sticking with the American "C tuba for college" thing,
If normal sized, 186
If oversized, pt6 (rotary), or 5450 (piston)
If jumbo, think long and hard.
If you want a cheap jumbo in C, I believe all of us know which particular make and model floods the used market.

That was mostly my point! If decide to get a bigger one, it will likely be pt-6, 5450, or MRP; unless some unicorn hits my fancy. I wouldn't be apposed to a special 1293 or 291 Miraphone, but those aren't different enough from my VERY nice/special (confirmed by M.W. at a major retailer) 2155 in the grand scheme of things... Mine has GREAT pitch steering, basically 1 note need love... and it's easy. That being said, I'm not actively looking for a "upgrade" right now. My MRP F is solid, it is my ride or die F (with MAW valves, and Sellmansberger Solo #1 and deep rim).

Having gigged enough post grad school, I don't thing the jumbos are needed for most situations. Even when played by my betters.

[Pauvog1]

[

[Pauvog1]

Since you got accepted on the Eastman, why not let the new teacher guide the decision, or at least give their 2 cents. If you want an upgrade for you, cool. Make sure pitch is workable. Most conductors aren't really paying that much attention to us as we think. They want in time, in tune, and in style first. Most of that is not driven by horn choice.

If you're sticking with the American "C tuba for college" thing,
If normal sized, 186
If oversized, pt6 (rotary), or 5450 (piston)
If jumbo, think long and hard.
If you want a cheap jumbo in C, I believe all of us know which particular make and model floods the used market.

That was mostly my point! But admittedly, we agree on philosophy more than we don't. If I decide to get a bigger one, it will likely be pt-6, 5450, or MRP; unless some unicorn hits my fancy. I wouldn't be apposed to a special 1293 or 291 Miraphone, but those aren't different enough from my VERY nice/special (confirmed by M.W. at a major retailer) 2155 in the grand scheme of things... Mine has GREAT pitch steering, basically 1 note needs love... and it's easy. That being said, I'm not actively looking for a "upgrade" right now. My MRP F is solid, it is my ride or die F (with MAW valves, and Sellmansberger Solo #1 and deep rim).

Having gigged enough post grad school, I don't thing the jumbos are needed for most situations. Even when played by my betters.

[bloke]

At least this person didn't throw $12,000 bucks at an F tuba - just to play a recital in front of a handful or two of people.

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