New (China-made) Conn tuba models

[MartinMan]

If I actually wanted something like that, I'd wait until ConnSelmer gave up on trying to sell them at those prices, and buy them straight from China with no engraving.

Exactly. Moving production overseas is one thing, but putting such a ridiculous markup on the imported horns and continuing to price them in the same range as when they built them all built domestically is baffling.

The high price point of the horns is what drove so much of the market to China in the first place, so if they moved production in an attempt to compete at a lower price point, if understand it (not condone it mind you, but at least understand the rationale).

Abruptly announcing the shuttering of operations in Easlake was infuriating enough, but the marketing of these horns makes it that much more upsetting. I hope the market responds accordingly to what a disastrous business decision this all is.

If ZO is the contract manufacturer, it's worth consider the price they sell their own-brand horns to see how much mark-up C-S is putting on them, e.g.
https://mackbrass.com/tu5000-5%2F4-bbb-tuba-zo

Fair enough, but I still see the comparison of a $5,795 (Zo on the Mack site) for a 5/4 5 valve horn vs. over 10 grand (King on the Taylor site) for a 4/4 4 valve horn to be a bit head-scratching.

[catgrowlB]

^ Is Mack Brass still up and running? Seems like the site hasn't been updated in years, and you never hear about it or anyone buying from them anymore. Tom doesn't post here, and those ZO tuba pictures and prices are pre-pandemic....

The new Conn-Selmer stuff made in China - whether at the ZO plant, or somewhere else - does seem kinda high priced. But about in-line with the Eastman stuff and John Packer stuff, for the most part. And those makers are already pushing up into Yamaha and German (Miraphone, MW, B&S) tuba pricing on some models.
Yet, you all seem OK with the Eastman and John Packer pricing.

ZO, Sierman, Eastman and John Packer all apparently make quality brass instruments. I guess it's up to each individual to seek out the models from those makers that interest them, and buy one.....or not.

[bloke]

You know...
If you know what brand of stuff I sell,
I just quoted on a bunch of lacquered brass sousaphone outfits with cases shipping and included for about $4,300 bucks, and some lacquered brass compensating euphonium outfits (extremely sturdy cases supplied with those) for about $1900 bucks.
People who pay more than that for the makes/models that I sell are apparently just looking online and not being very investigative.
Email and phone phobia...??

[PlayTheTuba]

The Conn CBB4114 most intrigues me:

Looks like something out of Conn's past (which kinda appeals to me). List price of $8,739 seems . . . ambitious.

I know ZO is making stuff for Conn, as I saw their 20K short-action valve set. Looked pretty good to me!



Conn.jpg

Interesting, I guess the "new Conn", HS Musical, and Yamaha agree that is the best way to design a top action valve set and/or Block!


"Surely, this design has the potential to be an incredible instrument...

Conn CBB4114 Top Action 4 valve BBb tuba.jpg (22.99 KiB) Viewed 11018 times

ADVANCED!! It's NOT a Professional model!! Uh well, never mind" /Sarcasm




ooohhhh HS Musical has a short video of the TB7... neat!!!! I'll just post this here.


Although, I just now noticed the way the first valve tubing enters and exits is slightly different, I am not referring to the way its wrapped. For the Conn and the HS Musical horns.

[russiantuba]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

Butler trombones is releasing a carbon fiber Sousaphone and Lee Stofer seems to still make those CCs

Rob Phillips is making tubas through the Ohio Brass Instrument Company (I think that is the name). Not the output of Lee as of now.

[bloke]

My experience with American-based companies selling Asian-made instruments (with their legacy American brand names.on them) is that they end up being RE-retailed by the American company whose name appears on the Asian instruments.
In other words (regardless of how wonderful or mediocre those instruments end up being), they always end up being some of the most expensive instruments made in Asia, by the time the end up in the hands of United States consumers (often parents of school children, who have no idea about what where or why in regards to band instruments, and who also end up being stuck in these rent-to-purchase "deals").

It seems to me that most of us here aren't particularly interested in educational-grade instruments, other than middle/high schools that buy them, and someone like me who sells them, and who makes money off of fashioning them back into usable instruments each year, after they're habitually trashed by young scholars.

[catgrowlB]

Interesting, I guess the "new Conn", HS Musical, and Yamaha agree that is the best way to design a top action valve set and/or Block!


"Surely, this design has the potential to be an incredible instrument...
Conn CBB4114 Top Action 4 valve BBb tuba.jpg
ADVANCED!! It's NOT a Professional model!! Uh well, never mind" /Sarcasm




ooohhhh HS Musical has a short video of the TB7... neat!!!! I'll just post this here.


Although, I just now noticed the way the first valve tubing enters and exits is slightly different, I am not referring to the way its wrapped. For the Conn and the HS Musical horns.

Yeah, I saw that as well. Yet they list the King 2341 as 'professional' ......a tuba commonly seen in grade schools. Whatever, it's all marketing. I think if the Conn CBB4114 turns out really good, I'd most likely prefer it over the King 2341. I like the looks and specs of the Conn CBB4114

The TB7 looks somewhat similar to the Conn CBB4114, but I see many differences. Do you have specs/details on the TB7 ?

[bort2.0]

Made in China and still this expensive?

[gocsick]

Made in China and still this expensive?

Well.. price on the Yamaha YTR-2330 student trumpet is $1,886 (Sweetwater, Music and Arts etc)... and it is made in China. That is the online price..I didn't know what kind of wiggle room there is to negotiate at a dealer in person.

At least Yamaha is honest about it.. They just stamp "China" on their instruments. Unlike the

Designed in USA . Buy American!! Assembled in China

Nonsense that US companies pull.

[bort2.0]

Yes!

I like when they get real specific, like:
Thoughtfully designed in the heart of California, responsibly produced in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China.

Just say Made in China. Everyone knows it wasn't designed there. And tell me how many Americans (even well-educated Americans can point to Shenzhen or Guangdong on a map).

[bloke]

I sell an (actually) wonderful (certainly is good as the entry level Yamaha) JP entry level trumpet for WAY less than $500 (actually, less than $400).

... very well fitted stainless steel pistons, #1 thumb saddle, excellent slide alignment, GREAT sound, and intonation characteristics are as good as any.

Unless I had a kid who was in the local youth orchestra or being hired to play while still in high school, I probably wouldn't ever purchase them a fancier trumpet than this one (but many people tend to get carried away, and spend way too much on their children - a remarkably large number of them as early as at 6th grade "step up" meetings that music stores hold in public school band rooms).

The JP entry level trumpet has a zipper case (which is no better than the thin plastic Yamaha case) but it is over $1,000 lower cost.

They also offer a really excellent entry level trombone for very little more money than the trumpet.

I can't evangelize to the world in regards to how much money they're needlessly spending, and I also don't believe that JP is capable of manufacturing enough trumpets and trombones to replace all of those wildly high-priced ones that people buy.

...but the topic is American brand name high priced instruments made in China, but it's also now become Japanese brand name high priced instruments made in China (and Malaysia), has it not?
I certainly wouldn't be suckered into paying western world prices for either, unless new condition used, actually good, and priced lower than the dealer wholesale price.

[PlayTheTuba]

...

ooohhhh HS Musical has a short video of the TB7... neat!!!! I'll just post this here.

...

Yeah, I saw that as well. Yet they list the King 2341 as 'professional' ......a tuba commonly seen in grade schools. Whatever, it's all marketing. I think if the Conn CBB4114 turns out really good, I'd most likely prefer it over the King 2341. I like the looks and specs of the Conn CBB4114

The TB7 looks somewhat similar to the Conn CBB4114, but I see many differences. Do you have specs/details on the TB7 ?

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According to these 2 websites,

https://www.casadaorganista.com.br/tuba ... a-4-pisto/

https://www.teclasom.com.br/tuba-5-4-hs ... a-4-pisto/

5/4 BBb tuba.

The bore is 18.5mm to 19.5mm - .728" to .750" (Although, 19.5mm is supposed to be 0.768 inches, not sure what is up with that)

457mm bell (17.992, essentially an 18 inch bell)

I'm glad that casadaorganista.com actually lists the temperature at which it plays at 440hz "Relating to There 440 Hertz at 20oC" Basically at 68 degrees F. I am glad they actually did that.

Even Miraphone with seperating the tubas by material, finish, and tuning don't list the temperatues if i recall.

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I wonder if they took the Nirschl copy in BBb (TB1) bugle, and then took the same valve block they use for the Yamaha 321 BBb (R751) copy (well I guess it could be a copy of the Weril version, since that was also made in Brazil) and then had it fitted to the bugle.

The TB7 fascinates me because I like top action tubas when they are comfortable to hold. Plus, the TB7 seems to be one of HS Musical's unique designs. (unique to them, nobody else makes that design)

Time really does march forward! Someone posted a review of the TB7, I'll watch it later. I hope the translation to English makes sense!

Review Tuba HS MUSICAL TB7 Banhada a Prata - Versão Atualizada


There's also this video too now. I'll check it later too.

Tubas HS MUSICAL TB7 - Cores & Sons


Fun fact, the also make the Yamaha 321 copy (R751) with a front action valve set too. It even has a thumb kicker on the first valve slide. That model is the R752

https://www.teclasom.com.br/tuba-4-4-pr ... ical-r752/

They make a Rotory 6/4 CC tuba too now!!! Whaaaaaat!!!!!!! Although, In the photos, it looks more like 5/4 to me, but pictures can be hard to tell scale at times.

Tuba 6/4 HS Musical TB8C - Oliveira's Series - Laqueada - NEW
https://www.camarainstrumentos.com.br/t ... ueada-nova


I realized that I typed soooo much I probably should've just created a new thread.

[PlayTheTuba]

Bummer the TB7 review video doesn't even have the terrible ai translation. Aw well, I'll still watch it for the horn porn

[Mary Ann]

Huh. After watching these demo videos, I no longer feel bad about my BBb playing. At all.

[bloke]

Tuba demos are often THE worst.
Even some of the really great players (but not all of them) tend to mostly want to show us how loud the tubas can be cranked (vs. how cantabile they can be played).

[catgrowlB]

@ PlayTheTuba -- thanks for posting all that

So, R 29,000 (Brazilian real) is equal to just over $5,700 USD. That is for a new lacquered HS TB7 tuba. Those prices are much more reasonable than the new Conn-Selmer stuff made in China. I'm guessing that the HS Musical tubas are made at the former Weril plant in Brazil
Those tubas look interesting; maybe even promising!

As for the tuba demos -- they are what they are. Basic hymns played on tuba with backing track I guess give an idea of the tuba. I'd like to hear something more involved, more developed with a bit more range, in different keys with more dynamics. I did notice the 3rd partial open F right below the staff tends flat/saggy on that model. It's probably lippable, otherwise use 1&3. I can deal with that; no biggie

At least the guy isn't blasting everything with a harsh sound, and isn't the Buffet Group demo of that guy trying to 'demo' the well-regarded B&S GR-51 (what were they thinking?)... or Jack Kanstul (trumpet player) trying to demo his contras (what was he thinking)?
Anyone remember those demos?

[bloke]

Okay, but could you just imagine an oboist, bassoonist, or cellist demonstrating an instrument by playing major scale fortissimo dotted quarter notes with eighth note rests in between them (and expecting to be taken seriously by other people who play those instruments)?

I think it's more the collective tuba mentality than something to blame on the really accomplished artists who demonstrate instruments in this manner. I suspect that many of us play something sort of like that when we first pick up our instruments... sort of like blowing all of the stale leftover whatever out of them first.

"If I can do this, then I can do anything..."

me...??
perhaps a cockeyed perspective.
I'm the one who used to sit in the corners of the living rooms of rich people's houses playing for private cocktail parties when I was a teenager - playing stuff like early '70s movie themes, bossa nova, and quiet little pieces like La fille aux cheveux de lin on a nylon string guitar...(and being rewarded with actual money) for playing stuff like that - and only just loud enough so as they didn't have to talk any louder than they preferred.

[UncleBeer]

Those prices are much more reasonable than the new Conn-Selmer stuff made in China. I'm guessing that the HS Musical tubas are made at the former Weril plant in Brazil

There's a reason most large manufacturers stopped trusting Brazilian factories, and thus the price difference. I've seen what comes out of these factories. Work ethic definitely plays a role.

[bloke]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong:

For a while weren't the Brazilians (when they started making pistons out of stainless steel) making piston valve sets for Walter Nirschl ?

That said, I don't think they made very many, nowhere near a brazilian of them.

[PlayTheTuba]

Those are both true statements. I was really close to ranting about fountain pens and nibs . Eh

There's a video of the TB1 too. The way the bugle is wrapped is actually quite different compared to the TB7. Which means the TB7 is truly an unique or a distinct tuba. Nooooice

I do agree with @catgrowlB the prices seem reasonable for what you're getting.

Do I think it'll last as long as US (especially the classic ones) and European horns? Probably not. But as long as they well assembled and the valves last with proper care, then it should be good. Assuming the horns or designs don't suck.

I wonder how willing they are to sell entire valve sections or bugles... It can put open the door for some neat Franken tubas...