Wessex CC 6/4 Rotary valve Tuba 'Titan'

[the elephant]

I know this will strike many of you as being fussy, but when the valve section is not aligned with the centerline of the bell, it looks "pasted on" or "homemade" to me. Look at this tuba, then compare the angle of the valve section in Joe's image. To me, that detail is very telling before I ever play it.

Again, that is my personal bias and experience. It just looks weird to me, as if it's not quite fully worked out.

[jtm]

Nitpicking here: The measurements are wrong: 20mm ain't 0.75". It's .787". No idea what the actual bore is.

I saw that too. I'm guessing the millimeters are correct and the inches are wrong.

My little rotary F is 21mm after the last valve. Should I be calling it a 6/4 tuba?

[bloke]

Maybe so.
I've always thought of my big tuba as being sort of bizarre, by the way they placed the entire fourth circuit on the front of the instrument...
... but then I did the same thing when I built a little Holton.

I tend to suspect that the millimeter bore sizes are correct, and the inch sizes are not. Pretty soon, someone will pop in and clarify.

If Wade's observation is correct, they may have done that to make a space for the hand to fit through the body to reach the first slide.

[Sousaswag]

It's probably because pasting the valve block on there is exactly what they did. That bell, bottom bow and top bow (at least) were originally made for a piston tuba, Naturally they messed with the inner bows some, but it's largely the same as what HB did with their 4/4 CC's, just backwards:

HB2P - Piston valves on original rotor body

Wessex Titan - Rotor valves on original piston body

[bloke]

HB2P - Piston valves on original rotor body

I realize there's some sentimentality attached to this model, but I've always sort of viewed it as a bit of a disaster.
That said, one of my weaknesses has always been NOT buying models that I dislike (even if at really low prices, whereby I could make some good money flipping them).
I have trouble feigning enthusiasm. I'm just not good at it.

Sticking that slide randomly in the mouthpipe tube...yikes.
However, since this model's intonation characteristics are so squirrely, they could have oriented that slide upwards - towards the left hand - as a tune any note slide FTW...but no.

[catgrowlB]

HB2P - Piston valves on original rotor body

I realize there's some sentimentality attached to this model, but I've always sort of viewed it as a bit of a disaster.
That said, one of my weaknesses has always been NOT buying models that I dislike (even if at really low prices, whereby I could make some good money flipping them).
I have trouble feigning enthusiasm. I'm just not good at it.

Sticking that slide randomly in the mouthpipe tube...yikes.
However, since this model's intonation characteristics are so squirrely, they could have oriented that slide upwards - towards the left hand - as a tune any note slide FTW...but no.

[bloke]

Yeah... Exactly.
"Deleting posts that get into talking about "libertarian vs. communist" or "Republican vs. Democrat" is really silly, when

THE MOST POLITICAL AND OFFENDING THING

that can possibly be discussed here is to openly and flatly claim to dislike Brand X model X tuba.

... and discussing such models' intonation characteristics is rubbing salt in the wound.




... Back when I was teaching at Ole Miss, I had a student who really needed a lot of work on fundamentals but who was really good about doing what I told them to do each week between lessons and actually made progress. By the end of the year they were the best player in the studio, and started out as one of the weakest. Today they are head band director over successful high school program. I hope they're still playing.
The thing is this:
Reacting to the color Rolls-Royce ads in the cover of the T.U.B.A. Journal, I found one of those things used and in perfect new condition for $8000 bucks during that same time. I was playing it and dealing with all "the stuff". The young man I referred to in the previous paragraph was actually ready for a tuba and I suggested that they buy a 186. It came in about a week later, as the parents were funded and simply immediately ordered one. I spent about 90 seconds playing the 186, advertised my Rolls-Royce a week later, and sold it for $9,000. I actually didn't replace it with anything for quite a while, and spent several years (several) playing every gig on the F tuba.

[catgrowlB]

THE MOST POLITICAL AND OFFENDING THING

that can possibly be discussed here is to openly and flatly claim to dislike Brand X model X tuba.

... and discussing such models' intonation characteristics is rubbing salt in the wound.

I've noticed people have different experiences on horns, including intonation characteristics. I admit, I'm a Hirsbrunner fanboy; I have always had a good experience playing one. I really enjoy the way they play/sound. Weirdly, I've never been able to buy one or have the money for one when one came up for sale. I will always have a soft spot for Hirsbrunners

There are some on here that go nuts over some models of tubas and claim they are perfect or the best. But noone dare say anything about their horns, because they are magically "perfect". There is a line of rotary F tubas made by a popular 3-letter brand that some of you go nuts over. I personally dislike the way those tubas play/sound, but some of you guys go on and on about them. I just roll my eyes and move on....

To each their own

[bort2.0]

Neptune is the Mel Culbertson changes to the PT-6 design, which was in part because of wanting a tuba that could play in either BBb or CC.

MRP uses the Fafner bell and bell either directly or as deep inspiration to make a rotary CC tuba that sounds like a BBb tuba. I just learned that it's nicknamed "the tuba with the big hips " B&S says so themselves

I would imagine that the MRP and the Titan are quite different tubas from each other.

Sorry to derail but all this talk about the Fafner bell but have yall ever tried the Fasolt the 196? I don't know how meinl weston can call it a 5/4 instrument when its physically bigger than any 6/4 ive held. Thing was so huge I got rid of it in like 6 months it was just too big to carry around too big for any ensemble I was in. I think my point is I think a lot of tubas are actually just too big.

The only Fasolt that I can recall was down at Merlin Grady's shop like 10+ years ago. I think it was like damaged in transit and repaired, so it was a pretty good price. But I never saw it in person.

I should seek out a photo of this and the Fafner next to each other.

The Fafner... I love the sound. But I'll admit, when I first heard and saw it, the photos do nothing to help understand the scale of it. In a photo, it looks like a model 25 or something. In real life, it looks like it ate a model 25 for breakfast.

However, large tubas have a funny way of feeling "normal" in a pretty short amount of time. I've owned several very large tubas, with the largest being the Rudy 5/4 BBb. The first time you stick it in your car, you think it's as big as two tubas (and maybe it is). But as soon as you get behind it and start playing, it feels as ordinary as anything else.

It's quite possibly my favorite all-time tuba. And also maybe a sort-of hybrid design, in that it's not really a traditional Kaiser tuba. I don't think there's any American influence to it though.

[Timtamtuba]

Neptune is the Mel Culbertson changes to the PT-6 design, which was in part because of wanting a tuba that could play in either BBb or CC.

MRP uses the Fafner bell and bell either directly or as deep inspiration to make a rotary CC tuba that sounds like a BBb tuba. I just learned that it's nicknamed "the tuba with the big hips " B&S says so themselves

I would imagine that the MRP and the Titan are quite different tubas from each other.

Sorry to derail but all this talk about the Fafner bell but have yall ever tried the Fasolt the 196? I don't know how meinl weston can call it a 5/4 instrument when its physically bigger than any 6/4 ive held. Thing was so huge I got rid of it in like 6 months it was just too big to carry around too big for any ensemble I was in. I think my point is I think a lot of tubas are actually just too big.

The only Fasolt that I can recall was down at Merlin Grady's shop like 10+ years ago. I think it was like damaged in transit and repaired, so it was a pretty good price. But I never saw it in person.

I should seek out a photo of this and the Fafner next to each other.

The Fafner... I love the sound. But I'll admit, when I first heard and saw it, the photos do nothing to help understand the scale of it. In a photo, it looks like a model 25 or something. In real life, it looks like it ate a model 25 for breakfast.

However, large tubas have a funny way of feeling "normal" in a pretty short amount of time. I've owned several very large tubas, with the largest being the Rudy 5/4 BBb. The first time you stick it in your car, you think it's as big as two tubas (and maybe it is). But as soon as you get behind it and start playing, it feels as ordinary as anything else.

It's quite possibly my favorite all-time tuba. And also maybe a sort-of hybrid design, in that it's not really a traditional Kaiser tuba. I don't think there's any American influence to it though.

Maybe the Rudy 5/4 was more air efficient which makes it feel "easier to drive" than the size would imply. Ive never played one unfortunately so I don't know.
The Fasolt is mostly the same as the fafner but with a larger bell and i think an even thicker bottom bow which makes it a tad taller as well. My biggest gripe aside from being so heavy and taking up so much space was it was absolutely an air-hog. Felt like I was breathing so much to keep sound going. Probably a tuba made with 6ft tall+ germans in mind
But definitely too much tuba for me

[bloke]

Older RM 5/4 tubas feature larger mouthpipe tubes at the small end, and call for a pretty good amount of athleticism to play them - even more noticeable with the BB-flats.

It's something that the player adjusts to over a matter of days, and then - when they go back and play something with more resistance and particularly if it's a bit smaller - they realize (suddenly really loud and brash sounds coming out of the other make and model) how much effort they've been putting into playing the RM 5/4.

Some might remember the remedy that I came up with for this.

[bort2.0]

Some might remember the remedy that I came up with for this.

Smaller leadpipe!

[bloke]

Yeah. I guess it's funny...??

[bort2.0]

Yeah. I guess it's funny...??

The 5/4 Rudy that I had has been retrofitted with a Miraphone 190 leadpipe. Which yes, is smaller than the original Rudy 5/4 leadpipe.

That happened before I ever got the horn, so I can't really give an A/B comparison, but I sure like the tuba with the current configuration.

For such a large tuba, its:
* Efficient
* Easy to hold and hold onto
* Capable of a HUGE sound
* ^But easy to control if that's not what you want
* Intonation is pretty much as good as it gets

Anyway, what a lengthy sidetrack. I think Wessex made a new something...?

[bloke]

If you remember what I did; it could be A/B'ed.

[dp]

I know this will strike many of you as being fussy, but when the valve section is not aligned with the centerline of the bell, it looks "pasted on" or "homemade" to me. Look at this tuba, then compare the angle of the valve section in Joe's image. To me, that detail is very telling before I ever play it. Again, that is my personal bias and experience. It just looks weird to me, as if it's not quite fully worked out.

They're trolling for pre-orders. And I agree, it doesn't look "thought out" at all...IMO it looks like a guaranteed bowser

as for you being "fussy"...for some reason that just did not sound like the Wade I know...

[bloke]

...I just about completely managed to change the subject, and here Dale brings it right back.

[jtm]

There is a line of rotary F tubas made by a popular 3-letter brand that some of you go nuts over. I personally dislike the way those tubas play/sound, but some of you guys go on and on about them. I just roll my eyes and move on....

To each their own

I don’t get to compare enough tubas to have good opinions about sound, but I love my rotary F tuba that meets that description because I’m a dilettante and appreciate that it’s SO easy to play in tune and for me to sound pretty good with. I’d love to try some others, but I don’t have the time or opportunities, and this one works great anyway.

[bort2.0]

& isn't a letter.

[arpthark]

& isn't a letter.

B'n'S