RT small shank

[Kctuba]

Just asking those of you that probably know, I ordered an RT88 for my mirafone 188 that I just received. It only went in less than a quarter of an inch. I’m assuming if I order the small shank that probably should fit well? I know it may sound silly, but I just didn’t wanna buy something that was gonna have a super small shank on it. I also was very lucky to get an absolutely fantastic deal on an early 80s 188. I’ve wanted one for almost 30 years, and it does not disappoint.

[bloke]

What many people view as correctly-sized standard shank mouthpieces typically insert into receivers 1/4 of an inch less than what people tend to view as correctly size to Euro shank mouthpieces. (Note that I use the words "view as" which I mean "perceive or believe to be".)

Obviously, there's no official licensed nor dictated sizes, and even the particular taper is sort of informally agreed upon.

I'm not offering any more in between shank mouthpieces other than the ones I have in stock, but mine run about like I described
- Standard shank
- in between "P" shank inserts about 1/8 inch less than standard
- Euro shank inserts about 1/8 inch less than than "P"

Assuming those RT mouthpieces follow the above description, if it inserts in that particular tuba less than a quarter of an inch, if you buy a standard shank version, it should still only insert less than a half an inch. My guess is that the choke point is quite a bit farther in that tuba's receiver than a half an inch.

How do other mouthpieces that you own which are long established models fit into that tuba?

The most common taper for a mouthpiece shank or receiver is Morse taper which features an increase or decline of a half an inch per foot (which is also just about the same as the infinite Jarno taper - the portions of the jarno taper are marked off in ranges which typically refer to tenths of an inch).

What quite a few people don't understand is that - even if a receiver follows this decline, a receiver can follow this decline further to a smaller choke point or less far to a larger choke point. Additionally, they can extend out on the large end farther and larger or less so.

As long as both the mouthpiece and the receiver follow this rate of decline, they should fit solidly inside each other, but there's no guarantee as to how much overlap there will be.

I just took one of my favorite mouthpiece's shanks down from the size that I used to offer that's in between euro and standard (what I called "P") down to standard shank size, because I just changed the receiver on the tuba in which I was using that mouthpiece, and I personally prefer that the mouthpiece not leave very much reverse taper of the receiver itself exposed just in front of the choke point.

I JUST TYPED A WHOLE BUNCH OF BLATHER WHICH MIGHT SEEM OFF TOPIC BUT IT'S REALLY NOT.

TO YOUR INQUIRY:

- Grab a genuine Bach mouthpiece - or a Conn 120 Helleberg or something like that - and check to see how those fit into that tuba's receiver.

- Check your brand new mouthpiece to see how far it fits into other tubas' receivers.

Almost no end users measure anything, they only go by what seems to fit and what doesn't seem to fit, and - in particular - they mostly notice anomalies, such as the one you are describing.

[prodigal]

By the 80s, Miraphone should have moved on from the small shank receivers, correct?

My old (1960) 186 does best with a PT-49 XS small shank. My 1998 version was fine with American or PT shank.

[dp]

What many people view as correctly-sized standard shank mouthpieces typically insert into receivers 1/4 of an inch less than what people tend to view as correctly size to Euro shank mouthpieces. (Note that I use the words "view as" which I mean "perceive or believe to be".)

Obviously, there's no official licensed nor dictated sizes, and even the particular taper is sort of informally agreed upon.

I'm not offering any more in between shank mouthpieces other than the ones I have in stock, but mine run about like I described
- Standard shank
- in between "P" shank inserts about 1/8 inch less than standard
- Euro shank inserts about 1/8 inch less than than "P"

Assuming those RT mouthpieces follow the above description, if it inserts in that particular tuba less than a quarter of an inch, if you buy a standard shank version, it should still only insert less than a half an inch. My guess is that the choke point is quite a bit farther in that tuba's receiver than a half an inch.

How do other mouthpieces that you own which are long established models fit into that tuba?

The most common taper for a mouthpiece shank or receiver is Morse taper which features an increase or decline of a half an inch per foot (which is also just about the same as the infinite Jarno taper - the portions of the jarno taper are marked off in ranges which typically refer to tenths of an inch).

What quite a few people don't understand is that - even if a receiver follows this decline, a receiver can follow this decline further to a smaller choke point or less far to a larger choke point. Additionally, they can extend out on the large end farther and larger or less so.

As long as both the mouthpiece and the receiver follow this rate of decline, they should fit solidly inside each other, but there's no guarantee as to how much overlap there will be.

I just took one of my favorite mouthpiece's shanks down from the size that I used to offer that's in between euro and standard (what I called "P") down to standard shank size, because I just changed the receiver on the tuba in which I was using that mouthpiece, and I personally prefer that the mouthpiece not leave very much reverse taper of the receiver itself exposed just in front of the choke point.

I JUST TYPED A WHOLE BUNCH OF BLATHER WHICH MIGHT SEEM OFF TOPIC BUT IT'S REALLY NOT.

TO YOUR INQUIRY:

- Grab a genuine Bach mouthpiece - or a Conn 120 Helleberg or something like that - and check to see how those fit into that tuba's receiver.

- Check your brand new mouthpiece to see how far it fits into other tubas' receivers.

Almost no end users measure anything, they only go by what seems to fit and what doesn't seem to fit, and - in particular - they mostly notice anomalies, such as the one you are describing.

[Sousaswag]

You could try the 88-S, if still offered. That’s what I used with my standard shank tuba.

I believe, in PT/RT terms, the “S” designates standard American, whereas their regular shank is the “in between” American and Euro size.

[Kctuba]

My Schilke HII goes in about 1/3 the way down the shank and a Bach 12 about the same. Based on everything I read now the 88S should be about that length. This larger shank actually fits my newer 186 perfectly. This 188 was built in ‘83-84. It is a WONDERFUL instrument and I got a great price from a great seller. If I hadn’t been in the airport doom scrolling exactly when he posted, I’m sure it would have gone in minutes. This 188 is everything you’ve ever read about the early ones. Great horn

[bloke]

My previous post was way too long and probably too long for most people to bother to read, but it's main points were:

- Almost no one has any idea how close the end of their mouthpiece comes to the choke point (where the receiver ends and the mouthpipe tube begins.

- The distance from the end of the mouthpiece to the choke point is all that really matters, and how deep a mouthpiece inserts into a receiver has nothing to do with anything, as long as the mouthpiece fits and doesn't rattle.

Is that more succinct and to the point, @dp ?

[BuddyRogersMusic]

The RT-88S is indeed still offered as is the Sousapower 8, the latter being a variant of the 88+ with a small shank.

You could try the 88-S, if still offered. That’s what I used with my standard shank tuba.

I believe, in PT/RT terms, the “S” designates standard American, whereas their regular shank is the “in between” American and Euro size.

[donn]

My Schilke HII goes in about 1/3 the way down the shank and a Bach 12 about the same. Based on everything I read now the 88S should be about that length.

Yes - that is, according to our experts and Perantucci's own pamphlet, 88S is American shank, like Bach. [edit] Oops, I forgot about the Tucci split. Not seeing any discussion of this point on the Robert Tucci site, I guess we assume that all the nomenclature is the same - his "small" is still "American", and he is oblivious to the existence of tubas with what we call a small tuba shank. [/edit]

1/3 of the shank inside the receiver isn't a good fit. You can probe around in there and see if you can detect Bloke's choke point, but just going on how much shank is hanging outside, you may have to give up on Perantucci Tucci and look for something with a legitimately small shank.

If you have access to a large shank trombone mouthpiece, that's the small tuba shank - 0.5 inch diameter on the small end, or 0.49 for Denis Wick small shank tuba. If that trombone mouthpiece shank, for a bass trombone or F trigger type larger tenor, looks like a better fit, you're in the exclusive small shank club. Which is weird, but ...

[prodigal]

If it's the bass trombone shank, you're looking for a PT-49 XS.

I should probably pick up another one myself.

[Kctuba]

RT 88S sits great in the 1982-ish receiver. And the obvious part, the horn responds great through the registers. I’ve played the 88 since getting my first one over 35 years ago. It’s just a great piece of equipment. For me anyways.