New (China-made) Conn tuba models

[catgrowlB]

Has anyone played or seen one of these new Conn tubas? I know they are made in China (probably better made than the Conn-Selmer stuff over the last 25 years anyway), but a couple of the models look interesting to me. The Conn CBB4114 most intrigues me:

https://connselmer.com/instruments/tubas
https://www.1800usaband.com/products/browse/48/54/

[hrender]

Curious about the new 6124. Slightly different than the 2341.

https://connselmer.com/instruments/tuba ... bb-cbb6124

[LeMark]

Curious about the new 6124. Slightly different than the 2341.

https://connselmer.com/instruments/tuba ... bb-cbb6124

Looks like a 2341 with smaller buttons and more nickel silver trim.

[the elephant]

Looks like simplified sousaphone finger buttons, which were simplified from the originals about 20 years ago.

These are cheaper to make because they lack most of the details that attracted me to them as a kid.

I like the nickel silver stuff. Looks nicer and will be a bit more dent-resistant and a lot more corrosion-resistant (where that applies).

Personally, I always thought that King really overdid it with the 2341's answer to the modern "big finger button" craze. It was like some sort of weird manhood insecurity issue or something… My buttons are bigger than yours. I have the biggest buttons. Whatever.

[UncleBeer]

The Conn CBB4114 most intrigues me:

Looks like something out of Conn's past (which kinda appeals to me). List price of $8,739 seems . . . ambitious.

I know ZO is making stuff for Conn, as I saw their 20K short-action valve set. Looked pretty good to me!

Conn.jpg (39.58 KiB) Viewed 21557 times

[bloke]

Looks like simplified sousaphone finger buttons, which were simplified from the originals about 20 years ago.

These are cheaper to make because they lack most of the details that attracted me to them as a kid.

I like the nickel silver stuff. Looks nicer and will be a bit more dent-resistant and a lot more corrosion-resistant (where that applies).

Personally, I always thought that King really overdid it with the 2341's answer to the modern "big finger button" craze. It was like some sort of weird manhood insecurity issue or something… My buttons are bigger than yours. I have the biggest buttons. Whatever.

They're also ridiculously heavy, yet are driven by the same spring as always. That said, they are horizontally oriented, so it doesn't make quite as much difference as if they were top action.

[bort2.0]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

[bloke]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

Frankentubas.
Oh wait... I forgot:

"American Heritage"

[bort2.0]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

Frankentubas.
Oh wait... I forgot:

"American Heritage"

Time to start putting built/rebuilt tags on horns, like they do with freight train cars:

[MikeS]

Time to start putting built/rebuilt tags on horns, like they do with freight train cars:

Does that also mean we will have to leave them in the yard overnight so they can get covered in graffiti?

[tubaing]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

Butler trombones is releasing a carbon fiber Sousaphone and Lee Stofer seems to still make those CCs

[MartinMan]

Are any tubas still made in the US right now?

Butler trombones is releasing a carbon fiber Sousaphone and Lee Stofer seems to still make those CCs

Yeah depends on what one's definition of "made" is.

Butler is making the carbon fiber parts in house, but the valve sections are imported.

Lee is assembling his tubas with the highest standards out there but even those parts are primarily new old stock parts from Getzen, who also weren't making those parts in house (I think it was Meinl Weston who was making the G50 parts?)

So, as of the conn selmer move, no tubas or sousaphones are being 100% made from scratch in the US anymore, and from everyone I know personally in the manufacturing game, no one has any interest in taking up the mantle. The cost of parts, labor, and the equipment needed is simply too high, and the market is too small to make it a feasible business decision.

Tides may turn at some point but for the foreseeable future, don't expect an American made tuba unless there's a significant amount of people out there who'd be willing to pay a Yama-york esque price for such a thing.

[bloke]

Zhe Jheh Khan

[iiipopes]

Hmmm. I find it interesting as a point of corporate, well, whatever, that the Conn CBB6124 is essentially a King 2341, well, at least in form, even advertising it as a "classic American design." Street price of the Conn: @$11,000 and up. Street price of the King: @10,500. Hmmm. If you think you can explain the corporate reasoning or justification, please let me know and I will purchase the beverages while you try to explain it.

I have said for decades and will continue to say that Conn needs to develop a reasonably priced front-valve tuba with their .734 valve block and a moderate flare bell to about 18 inches at the rim and market it as the "ultimate" American-style 4/4 concert band tuba. Jupiter seems to be doing alright with their JTU1110, which is why I purchased it for my BBb concert band tuba.

[catgrowlB]

^ The Conn CBB4114 appeals to me much more than the King 2341 or Conn CBB6124 because of the overall 'look' of the horn and it's specs. I don't mind top action valves, especially in a more compact design. The CBB4114 seems more like a modern-day throwback to one of the old Conn designs, with a few modern changes including a YBB-321- esque valveset, nickel-brass mouthpipe and slides. The bugle/body seem about the size of an old monster Eb, yet in BBb, and with a large, dual .750"/.800" valveset bore, and a bell right under 19" with a taper/curvature more old-school Conn; and different than the King 2341 bell.

Pricing may be a bit ambitious, but much more reasonable on the CBB4114. And the CBB4114 will have a different sound profile than the King 2341 due to the different layout, bell and much larger valveset bore.

And if these tubas are possibly made by ZO, then cool

[bloke]

If I actually wanted something like that, I'd wait until ConnSelmer gave up on trying to sell them at those prices, and buy them straight from China with no engraving.

[hrender]

If the 6124 had the dual bore of the 4114, it would be a more interesting horn. My 1927 King 1240 had a .750 bore, and it played very well. The larger bore apparently was an option on the King Symphony basses of the time (1920s-30s) and was, I think, standard on the Rotary Monsters like the 1286.

https://simonettitubacollection.com/ins ... flat-tuba/

[hrender]

Interesting also that Taylor Music (1800usaband.com) lists the 6124 but not the 2341. Plus you can buy a new Miraphone 186 from Taylor for less than the price of the 6124, which really opens the question of what C-S considers competitive pricing.

[MartinMan]

If I actually wanted something like that, I'd wait until ConnSelmer gave up on trying to sell them at those prices, and buy them straight from China with no engraving.

Exactly. Moving production overseas is one thing, but putting such a ridiculous markup on the imported horns and continuing to price them in the same range as when they built them all built domestically is baffling.

The high price point of the horns is what drove so much of the market to China in the first place, so if they moved production in an attempt to compete at a lower price point, if understand it (not condone it mind you, but at least understand the rationale).

Abruptly announcing the shuttering of operations in Easlake was infuriating enough, but the marketing of these horns makes it that much more upsetting. I hope the market responds accordingly to what a disastrous business decision this all is.

[hrender]

If I actually wanted something like that, I'd wait until ConnSelmer gave up on trying to sell them at those prices, and buy them straight from China with no engraving.

Exactly. Moving production overseas is one thing, but putting such a ridiculous markup on the imported horns and continuing to price them in the same range as when they built them all built domestically is baffling.

The high price point of the horns is what drove so much of the market to China in the first place, so if they moved production in an attempt to compete at a lower price point, if understand it (not condone it mind you, but at least understand the rationale).

Abruptly announcing the shuttering of operations in Easlake was infuriating enough, but the marketing of these horns makes it that much more upsetting. I hope the market responds accordingly to what a disastrous business decision this all is.

If ZO is the contract manufacturer, it's worth consider the price they sell their own-brand horns to see how much mark-up C-S is putting on them, e.g.
https://mackbrass.com/tu5000-5%2F4-bbb-tuba-zo