WTB: beginner euphonium

[bort2.0]

Looking for a horn for my son's friend (he's 10, like my son, and just finished his first year of band).

He rented a "baritone" last year, and I'm trying to get him set up with a better horn that he can own, and not waste money renting a worse, but new, instrument.

Most likely looking for:
* Yamaha 321 or similar. Maybe King 2280
* ^More generally, bell up, upright valves, 4 valves preferred (non-comp fine obviously)
* Hard case is a plus but not required
* Mechanically solid and no major dents/issues
* Doesn't need to be shiny/new, but not beat up either.
* Budget is $500-1000

Thanks!

[gnimoyw]

I have a 3-valve Besson comp that would be great for a beginner. I haven't tried very hard to sell it, but I do have a listing on Facebook marketplace. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 178688836/

[prodigal]

arpthark had a YEP-321 listed:

https://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php ... 80#p124680

[bort2.0]

arpthark had a YEP-321 listed:

https://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php ... 80#p124680

@arpthark -- I had messaged you about this a while back, but don't think I heard back. Is it still available?

[bort2.0]

I have a 3-valve Besson comp that would be great for a beginner. I haven't tried very hard to sell it, but I do have a listing on Facebook marketplace. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 178688836/

Oh man, that's pretty. Sending you a message...

[Bassboner]

There's a Wessex Dolce on the trombone forum for sale. They are decent instruments. 3+1 comp.

[bloke]

A (sensible) middle school band director (a professional brass player) reminded me (just yesterday) what a "beginner" brass instrument is.

If I could, I would trade all these freakin' 4-valve euphoniums and double horns for 3-valve, and swap these two F-attachment trombones for four regular trombones.
This equipment is too costly, and too delicate for these kids - particularly those who don't receive much parenting, and buying new 4-valve instruments uses up too much of my budget.

They also have a Buffet R-13 clarinet in their fleet (donated by a nearly military base band, which was downsizing - prior to this middle band director accepting this job) with (now) a busted joint.

[bort2.0]

A (sensible) middle school band director...

I generally agree. But I also think it depends on the kid and the school. And yes, the parents.

My son (and seemingly his friend, who we've known for 4+ years or something) are both the kind of kids who seem to handle what's given to them and take it seriously enough. I'm friends with his parents, they are great (smart, successful) people.

I'll just say, for the kids who can handle better stuff, it's good to get them started with the real stuff as soon as possible. It's not an outright requirement, but there can be a lot of real benefits and motivations attached to it. I think we're all fortunate for what we have, and "tuba" is always better than "no tuba." But gratitude doesn't erase the fact that "better tuba" is better than just "tuba."

Side note: my son (and his friend) are clearly bored in beginning band, they love playing but the music is, well, boring. I'm thinking some tuba/euph duets could be the perfect solution for these kids!

[bloke]

...But I also think it depends on the kid and the school. And yes, the parents.

fine...and - MY POINT - that's when private individuals, for/non-profit corporations, other private organizations, and individual parents can step in and (WITHOUT abusing hapless taxpayers - struggling to pay their day-to-day personal bills - including, I'd wager, a significant percentage of the subscribers to this board) make their own individual decisions.

When we (who "love" instrumental music) begin to insist that others finance quasi-luxurious pursuits of our family members' endeavors (by supplying quasi-luxurious equipment - even indoor air-conditioned/heated marching band practice fields ), we - then - should keep our mouths shut when we are forced to finance others' optional interests (sports, et al) by being taxed to construct luxurious arenas and stadiums for their school (and even for private/professional local - which should CERTAINLY be providing their facilities, and totally at their own expense. There is a political system whereby government decides which private entities get and which ones do not get...The name of that system begins with an "f".)

Beyond "adequate", luxurious equipment and facilities should be donated charitably (or - again - personally), rather than taken via coercion.

Is that a political statement? (Hell...what statement - of any substantive value - isn't "political" to some extent?)

[tubaing]

Schiller

[bort2.0]

Bump... I kinda forgot about this and it's almost August, so...

[prodigal]

My son's playing an Olds Ambassador bell front. It's not too bad.

[the elephant]

Just to take a step out of the weeds for a moment…

I like that King, and I *really* like the Yamaha 321, which has an added "secret hack" to lengthen its life in your kid's hands. It is an easy and inexpensive upgrade to have a tech swap the small shank receiver to a large one, allowing the instrument to grow with him as he gets more into mouthpieces.

Beyond that, I will have to keep my mouth shut, as I am far too uninformed.

I simply liked the 321 with the large receiver that I used to own. I like the King, too, and feel it gets overlooked too often.

Best of luck in your quest!

Wade

[bloke]

Just to take a step out of the weeds for a moment…

I like that King, and I *really* like the Yamaha 321, which has an added "secret hack" to lengthen its life in your kid's hands. It is an easy and inexpensive upgrade to have a tech swap the small shank receiver to a large one, allowing the instrument to grow with him as he gets more into mouthpieces.

Beyond that, I will have to keep my mouth shut, as I am far too uninformed.

I simply liked the 321 with the large receiver that I used to own. I like the King, too, and feel it gets overlooked too often.

Best of luck in your quest!

Wade

I had some spare goofball large shank receivers in the drawer of my desk (I had to swap them out off of some really inexpensive Chinese 3/4 tubas - King 1140 knockoffs - that I sold to some school twenty years ago), thought about it, and stuck one on my personal YEP-321. I believe I like it better, but I'm still using fairly conservative size mouthpieces (such as 51 NOT D) with the instrument (as the instrument itself is not that large (the bore size being .571", which is more in the size range of a typical American - often bell front - "baritone horn").

Recalling all too well what Rich Matteson did with this model, I'm sure he was quite happy with the small shank.

[the elephant]

I had to use a Schilke 59 with mine because I suck at euphonium. My Yep-321 was silver, though, so it sounded great despite my many shortcomings.

[Bob Kolada]

I used a 3G for a long time because the Amati my parents bought me in high school came with one, I bought a Wick SM3M that has a better euph sound. It's still a little small for me but I never play the horn anymore so I've never bothered getting an SM2M. Like bloke said, it's a smaller horn anyway.
What I really like on my older Chinese Schiller comp euph (I bought it used years ago from a band director who bought a Willson) is my Yamaha 60B. It's approximately the size of a Schilke 59, has a nice fat rim and a shallow cup. I have a few contrabass trombone mps that are fun to screw around with but way too big and broad for anything other than a tenor tuba or mini tuba setup. Yamaha lists it as a German style bass trombone mp, it works great for jazz band bass as well as euph for a tuba or bass bone player.

Those are both oddball choices that a beginner should probably avoid.

[Mary Ann]

I'm using an inherited SM3.5 in the Alex baritontuba, and it sounds halfway euph-ish and halfway tuba-ish. I have no idea what that mpc is supposed to be "for," but I don't seem to be able to even play a 6 1/2 Al, so -- it is.

[bloke]

I have an UGLY FINISH (completely sound, mechanically) Yamaha YBB-321 with a Yamaha case (with no cracks).
The case is missing a fancy latch (no longer available...I've looked - a LOT) so my plan is to replace BOTH latches with the "square style" drawbolt latches that they now use on these cases (for a symmetrical look).

I don't have time to clean it now (nor remove minor dents), but I should have time in two or three weeks, if interested.

I quoted $900 (I actually have two of these, so I quoted $1800) to a private school. He wants them, but (as school has already begun) their budget is set until December (and - well - he's already spent $15K buying instruments from me...a new program).

I would sell you the nicer of the two that I have, but - again - both have UGLY original lacquer.
I've been playing the uglier one on gigs whereby (as an "orchestral tuba player" - fwiw ) I've had to play things such as "Pictures" and "Mars" (whereby those parts are pretty darn high, and smaller-bore euphoniums - such as 321's - .571" w/11-inch bell) are ideal.

I could either leave the standard shank receiver on it, or (if desired) I could look around here and see if I can scrounge a large shank receiver.

[Bob Kolada]

I'm using an inherited SM3.5 in the Alex baritontuba, and it sounds halfway euph-ish and halfway tuba-ish. I have no idea what that mpc is supposed to be "for," but I don't seem to be able to even play a 6 1/2 Al, so -- it is.

I have a dead zone between roughly a 1.5G and a 6.5AL, I can play bigger and smaller but just blurrggh out in that dead zone. For example, I bought a very crisp King 606 trombone off Craigslist for 50 bucks, it came with either a 7c or an 11c and I handled that just fine*. I also used to own both an Olds marching trombone and an earlier Chinese rotary bass trumpet and used one or the other of the above without any issues.

*The slide was too narrow for my fat head so I lent it to a French horn playing colleague who taught basic brass lessons, I should look into getting it back someday as I haven't talked to her in over a decade and my little nephew is mesmerized by trombones. He can have my Getzen bass eventually but he's not starting out on it!

BORT, you guys should buy bloke's horns. As an adult I'd prefer a King 2280** because you can do some interesting low range tuning with them but I realize I'm not the target of the OP.

**iirc you can tune the 4th valve flat and use the 3rd side kicker to touch up the low range. The one I played a decade or so ago was fantastic and very free blowing but I did not explore that particular aspect. I think Mark put a 5th valve on his?? Again, not a beginner setup.