Birth Year Tuba

[tubatodd]

In the guitar and bass world, it's fairly common for players to want to own a "birth year" instrument. In other words, they purchase an instrument MADE the year THEY were born. I was born in the late 70s. So for me, my ideal birth year bass, would be a Music Man Stingray.

What would that translate to tubas? What was a popular CC tuba in the late 70s? My gut instinct is Miraphone, all day and twice on Sundays. Is that pretty accurate? Perhaps a Hirsbrunner. If you were to inventory every US symphony orchestra in the US in the late 70s, what as the most common make and model in use?

Bonus question 1: Why is that no longer the most common horn in use today?
Bonus question 2: What would be your birth year tuba?

[arpthark]

I'm kind of young for this group (not really wanting to dox myself, but I was born between 1987 and 1991).

Kind of the tail end of Miraphone dominance in the market, Hirsbrunners sort of taking off. USSR was still kicking, but it was past the golden era of GDR-made tubas. The Perantucci model (only one, no PT number) F tuba was available. I should go back and look through the ITEA archives for some old ads. I really have no idea what people were playing in that timeframe.

The best tuba I ever owned was a 1996 PT-6 and I would love (love!) to get it back. I don't know when the PT-6 was first made.

[ghmerrill]

What would that translate to tubas? What was a popular CC tuba in the late 70s?

Not sure how generalizable this is ( ), but the guy who was my high school band instructor in the mid-60s used a 1927 York CC tuba for his very long career: https://windsongpress.com/jacobs/written/leblanc.pdf But it might be difficult to find one of those now.

(I was a saxophone player at the time, and so didn't pay much attention to tubas, but I do remember hearing that one played a few times. He was also the best music instructor I've ever had.)

[graybach]

In the guitar and bass world, it's fairly common for players to want to own a "birth year" instrument. In other words, they purchase an instrument MADE the year THEY were born. I was born in the late 70s. So for me, my ideal birth year bass, would be a Music Man Stingray.

What would that translate to tubas? What was a popular CC tuba in the late 70s? My gut instinct is Miraphone, all day and twice on Sundays. Is that pretty accurate? Perhaps a Hirsbrunner. If you were to inventory every US symphony orchestra in the US in the late 70s, what as the most common make and model in use?

Bonus question 1: Why is that no longer the most common horn in use today?
Bonus question 2: What would be your birth year tuba?

I was born in the late 70s. I thought this would be a good question for AI. Just reading this, not all of it seems to be accurate. But, it’s more than I could come up with.

“In <birth year>, several manufacturers were producing tubas, with specific models from Hirsbrunner, Besson, King, and Yamaha identified as being available or manufactured that year.
Notable tubas made or available around <birth year> include:
Besson: The "New Standard" line was active, and a specific 4-valve compensating silver-plated Eb tuba from <birth year> has been noted. A 3-valve compensating BBb model was also produced.
Hirsbrunner: The Swiss manufacturer produced high-quality rotary valve tubas, including the ca. <birth year>
HB2 4/4 CC-Tuba (modern model HBS 290). A <birth year> catalog also mentions an HB-6 CC 5-valve model.
King: The Model 1241 B-flat Tuba was manufactured around <birth year>, featuring a detachable bell and piston valves.
Yamaha: Yamaha launched the YBB-641 rotary tuba model in <one year previous to birth year>, which would have been available in <birth year>. The YCB-621 CC tuba was also available around this time.
Miraphone: Miraphone was an established German manufacturer and was producing various Kaiser model tubas in the 1970s.
B&S (Bohland & Fuchs, Weltklang): Manufacturers in Germany (specifically in the Vogtland region) were producing various models, including the model 101 BBb tuba, sometimes under different export names.


2nd question I asked AI (It said “Conn Helleberg” for one of the tubas. I don’t know enough to know if that’s correct or not. I’ve always known that to be a mouthpiece.)

In the late 1970s U.S. symphony orchestras, popular tubas included the German-made B&S (Böhm & Sohn), especially models like the redesigned "Symphonie" series, alongside the rise of European brands like Meinl Weston and Hirsbrunner, while American favorites like Conn (Helleberg) and King (York) legacy models were still common but shifting towards these newer European styles for orchestral depth.
Key Brands & Models:
B&S (Böhm & Sohn): The German B&S "Symphonie" (Models 3099/3100) gained significant traction, with redesigned features to sound more modern and powerful than older models, becoming very popular in the U.S..
Hirsbrunner & Meinl Weston: These German/Swiss brands offered larger, deeper-sounding instruments that were increasingly favored in professional settings, often with 5 or 6 valves.
Conn (York): While the iconic Conn Helleberg was still around and used, the market was shifting towards the larger bores and richer sounds of the European brands.
Weltklang: A notable German brand from the era, Weltklang tubas (like the Model 101) were mass-sold in the U.S. and known for their distinctive sound, though often seen as a step towards the newer styles.
Why the Shift?
By the late 70s, American orchestras sought bigger, bolder sounds, leading to a preference for larger, often 5 or 6-valve, tubas with wider bores (like CC or F tubas) from German makers, moving away from some of the older American 4-valve BBb or CC models.

Bonus Question 1: Why is that no longer the most common horn in use today?
I think that my choice is still very common, but probably not the most common. There are far more choices now. But, Miraphone seems to produce very consistent quality horns.

Bonus Question 2: What would be your birth year tuba?

Miraphone. Not sure if they were manufacturing this model back then, but my favorite horn that I’ve owned and/or played, was an older Miraphone 188-5U, with, depending on what genre I was playing, PT42 and PT50 mouthpieces. If they indeed manufactured that model in my birth year, that would be my birth year tuba choice.

[arpthark]

In the guitar and bass world, it's fairly common for players to want to own a "birth year" instrument. In other words, they purchase an instrument MADE the year THEY were born. I was born in the late 70s. So for me, my ideal birth year bass, would be a Music Man Stingray.

What would that translate to tubas? What was a popular CC tuba in the late 70s? My gut instinct is Miraphone, all day and twice on Sundays. Is that pretty accurate? Perhaps a Hirsbrunner. If you were to inventory every US symphony orchestra in the US in the late 70s, what as the most common make and model in use?

Bonus question 1: Why is that no longer the most common horn in use today?
Bonus question 2: What would be your birth year tuba?

I was born in the late 70s. I thought this would be a good question for AI. Just reading this, not all of it seems to be accurate. But, it’s more than I could come up with.

“In <birth year>, several manufacturers were producing tubas, with specific models from Hirsbrunner, Besson, King, and Yamaha identified as being available or manufactured that year.
Notable tubas made or available around <birth year> include:
Besson: The "New Standard" line was active, and a specific 4-valve compensating silver-plated Eb tuba from <birth year> has been noted. A 3-valve compensating BBb model was also produced.
Hirsbrunner: The Swiss manufacturer produced high-quality rotary valve tubas, including the ca. <birth year>
HB2 4/4 CC-Tuba (modern model HBS 290). A <birth year> catalog also mentions an HB-6 CC 5-valve model.
King: The Model 1241 B-flat Tuba was manufactured around <birth year>, featuring a detachable bell and piston valves.
Yamaha: Yamaha launched the YBB-641 rotary tuba model in <one year previous to birth year>, which would have been available in <birth year>. The YCB-621 CC tuba was also available around this time.
Miraphone: Miraphone was an established German manufacturer and was producing various Kaiser model tubas in the 1970s.
B&S (Bohland & Fuchs, Weltklang): Manufacturers in Germany (specifically in the Vogtland region) were producing various models, including the model 101 BBb tuba, sometimes under different export names.


2nd question I asked AI (It said “Conn Helleberg” for one of the tubas. I don’t know enough to know if that’s correct or not. I’ve always known that to be a mouthpiece.)

In the late 1970s U.S. symphony orchestras, popular tubas included the German-made B&S (Böhm & Sohn), especially models like the redesigned "Symphonie" series, alongside the rise of European brands like Meinl Weston and Hirsbrunner, while American favorites like Conn (Helleberg) and King (York) legacy models were still common but shifting towards these newer European styles for orchestral depth.
Key Brands & Models:
B&S (Böhm & Sohn): The German B&S "Symphonie" (Models 3099/3100) gained significant traction, with redesigned features to sound more modern and powerful than older models, becoming very popular in the U.S..
Hirsbrunner & Meinl Weston: These German/Swiss brands offered larger, deeper-sounding instruments that were increasingly favored in professional settings, often with 5 or 6 valves.
Conn (York): While the iconic Conn Helleberg was still around and used, the market was shifting towards the larger bores and richer sounds of the European brands.
Weltklang: A notable German brand from the era, Weltklang tubas (like the Model 101) were mass-sold in the U.S. and known for their distinctive sound, though often seen as a step towards the newer styles.
Why the Shift?
By the late 70s, American orchestras sought bigger, bolder sounds, leading to a preference for larger, often 5 or 6-valve, tubas with wider bores (like CC or F tubas) from German makers, moving away from some of the older American 4-valve BBb or CC models.

Bonus Question 1: Why is that no longer the most common horn in use today?
I think that my choice is still very common, but probably not the most common. There are far more choices now. But, Miraphone seems to produce very consistent quality horns.

Bonus Question 2: What would be your birth year tuba?

Miraphone. Not sure if they were manufacturing this model back then, but my favorite horn that I’ve owned and/or played, was an older Miraphone 188-5U, with, depending on what genre I was playing, PT42 and PT50 mouthpieces. If they indeed manufactured that model in my birth year, that would be my birth year tuba choice.

AI sure loves to make stuff up! Some of that is accurate to my knowledge, but just to go through point-by-point:

- The Besson New Standard was not available in the late 70s, having been replaced by the Sovereigns at that point.
- Miraphone just made one (two if you count the CC and BBb) Kaiser model (190).
- Bohland & Fuchs was not part of B&S. It was more or less absorbed by the CSSR state apparatus Cerveny/Amati.
- B&S does not stand for "Böhm & Sohn." It's Blechblas- und-Signalinstrumente.
- Conn is not related to York.
- I don't think Weltklang was available in the US as such unless it was from Custom... they are a B&S stencil.

[bort2.0]

Model-year for tubas is more interesting for the birth year of the tuba, not the birth year of me. Like a first-batch Thor, or an early PT-6. Or a 186 from the late 60s. Even then, it mostly doesn't matter.

Otherwise, this is about as interesting to me as finding a birth-year quarter in my change.

[prodigal]

I think the seventies Mirafones were still pretty good. I have experience in 1960s and 1990s versions.

When did they go to the wider bell? (Between the two, I like the old 1960 horn.)

[graybach]

AI sure loves to make stuff up! Some of that is accurate to my knowledge, but just to go through point-by-point:

- The Besson New Standard was not available in the late 70s, having been replaced by the Sovereigns at that point.
- Miraphone just made one (two if you count the CC and BBb) Kaiser model (190).
- Bohland & Fuchs was not part of B&S. It was more or less absorbed by the CSSR state apparatus Cerveny/Amati.
- B&S does not stand for "Böhm & Sohn." It's Blechblas- und-Signalinstrumente.
- Conn is not related to York.
- I don't think Weltklang was available in the US as such unless it was from Custom... they are a B&S stencil.

@arpthark
Duly noted. Thanks for the correction. I’m a tuba amateur/hobbyist. I didn’t know enough to know if it was really accurate or not. I will not use AI on this board anymore. Seems they have a ways to go to be accurate about the tuba.
(And a lot of other things. In my business, I use AI, but I have to sometimes figure out whether what it tells me is a hallucination or actually the truth. And that isn’t always easy. AI is a great tool if you know how to use it right, but even the best AIs are VERY far from being be-all-end-alls.)

[jtm]

Now I’m curious about the source material for all those AI imaginings.

[tubatodd]

I was born in the late 70s. I thought this would be a good question for AI.

Oh no...

[tadawson]

I was born in the late 70s. I thought this would be a good question for AI.

Oh no...

The only truly *good* question for Artificial Imbecile is "Why is AI so inaccurate and useless" . . . (but it can't answer that one either . . . )

[bloke]

I've had some tubas that were some of your birth years (bought new 74 and 76 Miraphones), some that could have never been your birth years, I wonder that's within 2 years of my birth year.

I slicked out and flipped a couple of 1960s Miraphone C tubas.
... I don't remember exactly what years but maybe 64 and 69.

The closest to my birth year (currently owned) is a 58 Besson 3 + 1 compensating E flat recording bass... Though there is a three valve compensating recording BB flat here that might be around the same age.

Otherwise I've had a 1920s York and a 1920s Buescher helicon (both of which probably predate Dick Van Dyke).

I'm thinking that my compact Holton BB flat only dates back to the 60s.

It's possible that a 163 Alexander C that I owned for a while it was made during my birth year, but there's no way to really know.
That instrument was sort of ruined by a couple of guys that told me they could restore it for me (back around 1980). They buffed a big hole in it and ruined the rotors.

[Mary Ann]

Eh -- I don't think I'd have much fun playing a tuba made in 1949.

[ronr]

Not a tuba, but I bought a Kay bass, Chubby Jackson model, with a manufacture date of 1956.

I also have a 1960 186, so rhats close.

[bloke]

Not a tuba, but I bought a Kay bass, Chubby Jackson model, with a manufacture date of 1956.

I also have a 1960 186, as rhats close.

I picked up one that was made in 47 or so which predated it being called Chubby Jackson. Of course today it's called that... at least by those who know to call it that.

When my horn-playing granddaughter was very small, she pushed it over and knocked the neck off of it. It didn't damage it very much, mostly the neck just came unglued. I still sold it at a good profit. It had been off before, wasn't quite put back on straight, and this opened up the opportunity for someone - who really knows what they're doing (and or has a reasonable amount of attention to detail) - to put it back on at the proper angle.

I liked the Kay strategy of offering a five-string bass:
The neck was the same width as for a four-string, whereas only the fingerboard was wider and overlapped. I believe this strategy offers the player more latitude and ability to work with five strings.

[ronr]

Not a tuba, but I bought a Kay bass, Chubby Jackson model, with a manufacture date of 1956.

I also have a 1960 186, as rhats close.

I picked up one that was made in 47 or so which predated it being called Chubby Jackson. Of course today it's called that... at least by those who know to call it that.

When my horn-playing granddaughter was very small, she pushed it over and knocked the neck off of it. It didn't damage it very much, mostly the neck just came unglued. I still sold it at a good profit. It had been off before, wasn't quite put back on straight, and this opened up the opportunity for someone - who really knows what they're doing (and or has a reasonable amount of attention to detail) - to put it back on at the proper angle.

I liked the Kay strategy of offering a five-string bass:
The neck was the same width as for a four-string, whereas only the fingerboard was wider and overlapped. I believe this strategy offers the player more latitude and ability to work with five strings.

I play a five-string acoustic electric, so finding a five-string upright was a bonus!

[bloke]

Years ago, I'll picked up a vintage USA Fender Precision bass.

As is known, the string spacing is wider than with the Jazz model. Someone cleverly came up with a system to convert a four-string precision to a five-string without drilling any holes or defacing the instrument in any way, so is it could be put back the other way. I bought that person's kit and converted it to a 5-string. I didn't play very many jobs on that instrument. It just seemed to me that - in small combos - that playing much below low E was a little bit - well - a little bit much...and the fact that I didn't use the lowest pitched string very much sort of meant that it was mostly in my way.

I'll put it back the way it was originally, took it to a sort of famous guitar dealer in Brownsville Tennessee who sold top grade guitars out of his basement, and traded it for a Selmer Mark VI tenor saxophone. Back then, basses like that weren't even quite selling for $1,000, and I could get $2,000 for the saxophone.